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Messages - Jatoba
1 Development / Re: The "I've been programming lately and ..." thread
February 13, 2026, 20:49 		I'm always itching to "come back to the Mac", as well, and do stuff for it. I'm making plans on how I can make time for it. I can't seem to find a window for it even on weekends, but hopefully I can work it out this year.
2 Software / Re: Any love for goldbox SSI RPGs among S7T'ers ?
January 18, 2026, 10:01
Quote from: Bolkonskij
("What the heck is a negative Armor class?")

I'm no tabletop RPG expert, but it sounds like something that could be attributed to e.g. cursed equipment? Like something that looks good, you equip it, but THEN the true stats of the item are revealed, and they debuff and hinder you instead, but also cannot be unequipped through normal means, requiring either a special spell, item or visit to a local church or priest to remove it from you. (Realmz has all of this, though I think I only saw cursed weapons there so far, so nothing with negative AC.)

About "Forgotten Realms", I stumbled upon it once, by accident, when I was digging up Realmz-related "Yahoo! Groups" groups, and there was one for that instead. When Yahoo! Groups was about to be taken down, I fully archived quite a bunch of groups, and decided to do so for the Forgotten Realms one, just in case, even though I was only really interested in Realmz.

If you'd like, I can dig up my old Yahoo! Groups archive. I always meant to share it with everyone anyway, but somehow never got to.

I wouldn't mind actually playing Forgotten Realms someday, it honestly seemed potentially quite interesting to me, as well. The reason I didn't is simply that there's also a lot else that I find a lot more interesting (Realmz, Diablo, just about any Squaresoft RPG, lots of all-time JRPG classics etc.).
3 Off Topic Discussion / Re: System 7 song (AI)
January 02, 2026, 18:54 		Welcome, @gfinder!

That's an... interesting art piece you made there. Song, music and poetry over System 7, definitely not something we normally get to experience in these parts! Definitely is a breath of fresh air in a way. :) Good work!

Any chance we will get a hard rock cover of this later? ;)
4 Feedback & Ideas / Re: System 7 Today wishes Merry Christmas!
December 24, 2025, 18:22 		Merry Christmas, everyone! :)
5 Operating System / Re: System 7 natively boots on the Mac mini G4!
December 12, 2025, 08:16
Quote from: cballero
Oh, and Jatoba booted so many Classic OSes on his mini, ha actually got sound to work on 9.2.2! :D it's not perfect, but sound on Mac OS's been a no-can-do forever on any of the G4 minis! 8) JT, you're awesome, man! Please image that specific system folder so it can be replicated easily by others and that key secret sauce is not lost! ;)

Oh, no no, that was for "System Sounds": sound itself always worked on the mini (via a USB audio adapter), but what never worked, and now does, is:

- Changing the volume on the Control Strip (or even otherwise in the System);

- Having System Sounds play when they should, meaning "notification" sounds like ChuToy, Indigo, Sosumi, Beep etc.. While it is still not playing when a normal system alert window pops up, it is now playing for every other situation, such as when you try to click outside the range of an alert window without closing or dealing with the alert first, or clicking outside a file select prompt window, as well as all other situations an alert / system sound should play.

I also didn't try to see if the internal speaker of the mini now works. I don't think it does, but I will check later today just to be sure.

Quote from: Bolkonskij
Yeah, anybody with a list of things that don't work yet?

On Mac OS versions from before what a Mac could normally boot, until Rairii's "super" ROMs were released, the following don't work: sound, ethernet, GPU acceleration.

Some other occasional misc. issues also exist, for example:

- Unless you are using one of the latest versions of the System Profiler, the whole OS will hard freeze / crash when you try to open it;

- Pressing Cmd + I for "Get Info" doesn't do anything in some OS versions (works fine in e.g. at least System 7.5.5), but selecting "Get Info" from the Apple menus at the top works just fine for all tested OSes;

- In some versions of Mac OS, you need to move the stock "Mouse" Control Panel out of the Control Panels folder so that the system will succeed booting with all Extensions (seems to be required for System 7.5 ~ 7.5.3, but not 7.5.5, nor 7.0 ~ 7.1.2P, and I think also later OSes);

- Almost every program seems to run as it should based on their respective Mac OS version compatibilities, but there is a few exceptions to that (I think the Puzzle game embedded with System 7.5.x hangs when you start a new game, requiring a Force Quit, but the one embedded with System 7.1.x, which is a bit different of a game, works perfectly).

Rairii, the author of the "super" ROMs as I call them, still intends to get back to audio if nothing else, although right now he's busy trying to see if he can get System 6 to work. (!) His ultimate goal and main motivation and drive is to get Mac OS to boot also on the Nintendo GameCube, Nintendo Wii and Nintendo Wii U, which all use G3-derived CPUs.

About GPU acceleration, I think it is likely just an issue with any of the OSes just lacking the appropriate GPU drivers, although that's just my speculation.
6 Operating System / Re: System 7 natively boots on the Mac mini G4!
December 08, 2025, 08:29 		Mac7News again!

Rairii figured out all that System 7.0.x needed in order to fully use and acknowledge the existence of the Enablers, more appropriately-called "Gibblies", which is to take the boot 2 (and optionally boot 3) resources from System 7.1 and put them on System 7.0.x! So I went ahead and tried exactly that, on the Mac mini G4 as always:

7.0.1 (International English):

http://revontulet.org/2025/12/08/6e5503572a804f9aad5b2736f5e48656.jpg

7.0 (International English):

http://revontulet.org/2025/12/08/1b6fad33426d47ac9481584c520c3aab.jpg

Well, that's it. It's completely CRAZY all of this got this far. Incidentally, this patching might also assist older 68k Macs that required an Enabler to boot System 7.1 in a way so that they also boot 7.0.x (at least in theory).

Oh yeah, and it's incredibly stable, too. Played and completed a game of Shanghai II on these. Ran Glider flawlessly (lack of sound aside), too. Things just... work. Smoother than butter, it's playing with lightning!

Anyone can replicate this with easy ResEdit copy + paste, but just in case anyone wants an ever bigger shortcut, I attached a patch for 7.0 and 7.0.1 to this post (on "Mac OS 9 Lives!", login required), which I created with ResCompare 2.6. You double-click it, then click on the button to patch, then select your System 7.0 or 7.0.1 file accordingly. It may or may not require the "International English" version for my patches, though, but I'm not sure. The patches do work on the International English release, though, that much I can say. Also note that the patches create an unmodified backup file called "System (original)", just in case, but make sure you don't leave the backup inside your System Folder by accident.

This was my first time actually using ResEdit OR ResCompare in all my life. But wow, they are easy and nice. (Had to increase allocated memory on Get Info to both, though, which you must if you do any of this patching by hand!)

One way or another, we got ALL versions of System 7 now covered. Insane. Rairii also intends to look into the lack of audio one day, so this might not be over yet from his side.

Just to address our next natural expectation: "WHAT ABOUT SYSTEM 6?"

This one seems like it won't be easy (not that most of this was, as extremely few people on Earth have the ability + interest to do what Rairii did up until this point). Rairii is working on this, but there can't be any guarantees. It seems that even Macsbug is not working in this case? System 6 is just too much of a departure from System 7 and later. Code only present in Old World ROMs will be needed this time around, one way or another.

Now only time can tell what will or will not happen!
7 Operating System / Re: System 7 natively boots on the Mac mini G4!
December 04, 2025, 20:51 		OK, this came out sooner than expected... Or should I say, this was never truly expected.

I'm posting this on all 3 Mac communities I put the original post in, because it's that much of a big deal.

Many of us know System 7.1.2 was the first ever version of Mac OS to support PowerPC-based Macintoshes...

... Yet we couldn't go below System 7.5. Until a day ago:

http://revontulet.org/2025/12/04/728169f1b30e4a629308c728fbe40a56.jpg

Rairii just released not only an update to his System Enabler for System 7.5 ~ Mac OS 7.6.1, but also a separate patching effort of the same System Enabler to get System 7.1.x booting.

So this achievement alone is BEYOND newsworthy...

... But it doesn't stop there. No.

You'd think a PURE 68k OS wouldn't boot in PowerPC in bare-metal:

http://revontulet.org/2025/12/04/dd1f97c7831b4aae999eb43e19aee4e4.png

System 7.1.1...

http://revontulet.org/2025/12/04/56bbe94625c34d10ba74db17d68178b7.jpg

... And System 7.1.

"To boldly go where no PowerMac has ever gone before."

This is precisely what we theorized earlier, and the thoughts we entertained: with Apple's 68k emulator residing in the Mac OS ROM file, we now have the LATEST version of said 68k-to-PPC CPU instruction converter, making ALL OF 68k run as if it was no different than a Java runtime, with "68k bytecode", if you will. :) A whole OS done that way.

And guess what? System 7.1 is so light, so fast, I cannot even SEE the "Welcome to Power Macintosh" screen or any of the Extensions loading, because they all just load INSTANTLY. If you blink for even a moment, you WILL miss all of it.

It got to the point that the OS is so light, what takes the "longest" to load is the Mac OS ROM itself! You know that finished loading after you are past the Happy Mac part.

Anyway... There some points about these achievements I'd like to clarify:

- The OSes seem to pair with the Finder as follows: System 7.1 Finder 7.1, System 7.1.1 Finder 7.1.3, System 7.1.2 (and 7.1.2P) Finder 7.1.4. Note that System 7.5 is also paired with Finder 7.1.4;

- Systems 7.1.1 ~ 7.1.2P aren't able to run their Finders (crash+reopen Finder eternal loop), but if we swap them in with Finder 7.1, it all works, which is how I took those screenshots (Rairii figured this out first, as well);

- Systems 7.1.1 comes with its various own "System Enablers". You must delete them first so they don't intervene with Rairii's Enabler, as it's all System 7.1.1 needs. If you don't, you will see this instead. If you do, and please correct me if I'm mistaken, it seems like Rairii's Enabler gets its Resource Fork updated to also error out like this even after you got rid of the other, pesky enablers (I did an MD5 check for both forks to confirm). So if that happens, unpack Rairii's Enabler anew and discard the old one;

- System 7.1.2 (7.1.2P untested) is just like 7.1.1 in that it comes with its own Enabler that you need to get rid of first, in order not to face the same issue. In this case, it's called the "PowerPC Enabler";

- I could boot all these OSes with all Extensions on. I did get this and this as warning messages, though, after boot, at least with System 7.1.2;

- Funnily enough, System 7.5 has the same Finder 7.1.4 as System 7.1.2(P), but there are no issues with it there. Likewise, System 7.1.2(P) is fine with a different Finder. The problem only materializes when both are present simultaneously, but not individually. Incidentally, Finder 7.1.3 on System 7.1.2(P) will also have the same issue, as will the Finder that came with System 7.5, hence why we settle for Finder 7.1 (there are no Finder version 7.1.1 and 7.1.2 that I could find).

I think that's about it. So to highlight one of the interesting features of e.g. System 7.1.2P, it is the latest version of the OS that is still able to format disks as MFS. Nearly all of the later System 7 versions can both read from and write to existing MFS disks, but not format one anew. (So a Mac mini G4 CD for 7.1.2P could, one day, be theoretically cool to have. It is also a relatively popular System 7 version choice by many.)

There's also one more thing: Personally, I never really coexisted much with Mac OS before the System 7.5.x era. So I can't say what should be or should not be working at this point anymore... And I could use more people exploring this together with me. But what I can say is that System 7.1.x was almost as stable as the 7.5 and later counterparts on the Mac mini G4 1.5 GHz model (this hardware is so overkill). Most apps ran, but some, such as "The Teleporting Inchworm" (my personal choice of basic System features benchmark in this project) no longer runs (and freezes the OS). But maybe it was never meant to run on System 7.1 to begin with?

Some might now be wondering, "What about System 7.0 and 7.0.1?". From what I understood, System 7.1.x used a different "format" for its System Enablers compared to 7.5.x and 7.6.x, which is why we now have 2 different Enablers, but it seems no version of Mac OS before 7.1 is even aware of System Enabler files at all! (So-called "gibblies" or "gbly" type.)

So... yeah. Only time can tell what happens or not after this!

As always, many thanks to Rairii for yet another groundbreaking update! The latest enablers can be found in his GitHub project page, as per usual, which are also mirrored here in the Garden for both archival and easier access from Mac OS itself. Make sure to check the release notes for details. This time around, the Mac OS ROMs are the same as the previous release, so nothing new there to think about.
8 Operating System / Re: System 7 natively boots on the Mac mini G4!
December 04, 2025, 15:01 		@ShinobiKenobi Might be better to see if other people can also test System 7 with a "Blue iMac G3" to see if they have your issues.

Other than that, it seems your issues are unrelated to the project if they are present even with your retail Mac OS 9.2.1 disc? You might also want to consider other mice, as not all mice work fully on Mac OS in general, even if they may work on e.g. Windows. Some mice also start to misbehave if the likes of USB Overdrive are installed, while others play nice. (For the record, I use a wired Microsoft mouse, which always works perfectly, on all my USB-based Macs.)

I'd also not rule out the possibility your iMac G3 might, perhaps, have damaged USB hardware that needs to be looked into?

Your results are odd, but I think it's nothing too crazy. Since you used @RossDarker's Test CD, which is intended for the Mac mini G4 specifically instead, make sure to take out the included Mac OS ROM file and add one of Rairii's own ROMs to your install / CD image.
9 Operating System / Re: System 7 natively boots on the Mac mini G4!
December 03, 2025, 16:23 		On the topic of a System 7 Mac mini G4 CD, it seems "RossDarker" at "Mac OS 9 Lives!" is looking into it.

For those who can't wait, @lauland's advice is also really good.

I will just emphasize one thing, just to be safe: Remember to back up your files first. While there are no reports of data disaster anywhere, there's always a chance when covering brand-new territory like this. And on my mini, Mac OS 8.1 and earlier keep wanting to "Initialize" one of my main partitions full of important stuff, so all it takes for me to lose that part of my data is a single misclick.

Just make sure your ship is ready to sail first! Load in the cargo! Arr!

In my case, what I did was to use my DLSD PB G4 over FireWire 400, kicked out some crappy OS X files off an existing partition, reformatted it as HFS Standard on Mac OS 9.2.2 on the mini, then used Mac OS Anthology to install all these various systems. Most installers will complain about your machine not being recognized or compatible and thus try to block you from proceeding (load of bull), but you can bypass it all by holding down "Option" ("Alt") before reaching the screen to pick what OS components to install. For Mac OS 8.5 and 8.5.1, though, I had to use "Wish I were..." or similar.

This is also why I ended up with a British version of System 7.5, as Apple did not include the US counterpart for it in the Anthology discs. They were very lazy with earlier OSes, and I think some optional install media images were also missing.
10 Operating System / Re: System 7 natively boots on the Mac mini G4!
December 02, 2025, 19:25
Quote from: Bolkonskij
We need an easy installer to get folks to install it much like the OS 9 on Mac Mini one.

I really would like to see this done, as well. With more time, I'd definitely try it myself. But to even begin that process, I wonder what is the very latest of every Extension and Control Panel that each Mac OS version can take.

We have an idea for the likes of Mac OS 8.6 ~ 9.2.2 as per MacTron's screenshot I put in the first post, but what about the other OS versions? Do we have a nice list like that for Mac OS 7.6.1? Then we would have to do the same for the rest so we have a complete list like that, from System 7.5 to Mac OS 9.2.2.

I hope Rairii will eventually work more on this project, but anyone can take a peek at the ROMs and compare them to the stock ROMs by using ELN's "tbxi" tool, which separates the ROMs in directories and files, each representing the various resources and their contents, then do a "diff" (comparison of file differences) between the ROMs. This would reveal much of what Rairii has patched, and how, which could also cue us in on what to do next, e.g. to fix sound etc..

Regardless though, I'd like to see those System 7 CD images out there ASAP. :) As the name suggests, I think "System 7 Today" would be the best hotspot for looking into this particularly.
11 Operating System / Re: System 7 natively boots on the Mac mini G4!
December 01, 2025, 16:33 		@wove Mouse and keyboard were working perfectly fine when I booted System 7.5 and higher, I even created a SimpleText document to see if these were working all fine and if I could save normally and operate things normally, which I was pleased to see I could. :)

So if nothing else, you can use the mini with System 7 to write a book, maybe. ;)

I honestly wish to play a lot more with it, but I'm not sure if/when that will be.
12 Operating System / Re: System 7 natively boots on the Mac mini G4!
November 30, 2025, 16:09 		@snes1423 That requires a separate kind of effort. To quote myself:

Quote from: Jatoba
Keep in mind, however, that this effort essentially allows Macs that are already able to boot SOME version of Mac OS to ALSO boot older versions. But if a given machine cannot boot ANY Mac OS version, such as the two DLSD PowerBook G4s (15", 17"), these patches cannot do anything about that: Their incompatibilities need to be addressed first and separately.

The IBM PowerPC laptops use a hardware archicture that is different, known as "PReP". One thing about CHRP is that the architecture relies on Open Firmware, just like PowerMacs, but PReP devices AFAIK don't use Open Firmware.
13 Operating System / Re: System 7 natively boots on the Mac mini G4!
November 29, 2025, 06:13 		@ShinobiKenobi I forgot to mention, but for some reason, if you take the CHRP CD rip of Apple's CHRP version of Mac OS 7.6, it somehow is not the same as using a regular Mac OS 7.6 retail install.

You can still, and ought to, combine the System Enabler and Mac OS ROM with a regular retail version of Mac OS 7.6 (or your own regular install of Mac OS 7.6.1 like you did), and it should work.

Based on your "update" message, it would seem that you did everything right, but also that Rairii's ROM version 2.5.1 is not compatible with your iMac. I suggest you retry with ROM version 1.7.1 instead. If that still doesn't work, or if USB is a must, then try ROM 10.2.1 next.

Let us know how that goes!

EDIT: Oh! I just realized, were there any "iMac G3" models that were Old World ROM machines? Apparently Rairii made it so that his Enabler will also allow Old World ROM machines that cannot boot into System 7.5 ~ Mac OS 7.6.1 to be able to do so. In such a case, you use the Enabler, but not the ROM file, AFAIK, and it should just work.

However, if the iMac is "New World ROM", then the "Mac OS ROM" file will also be needed, as always.
14 Operating System / Re: System 7 natively boots on the Mac mini G4!
November 28, 2025, 18:26 		@wove Glad to see others enjoying it! I'm not sure I can help much with your PowerBook specifically (but the Mac OS 9 Lives! folks surely can, I think you could ask them for step-by-step instructions), however I can guide you for most other machines:

Step 1. Take an existing System 7 install and put it on your New World ROM Mac. You can also install System 7 fresh to any other drive of your choice.

Step 2. Move the "System Enabler 356" file you get out of "System.Enabler.356_patched.bin" into your System Folder, which you can directly download from this link (requires modern browser).

Step 3. Move the "Mac OS ROM" file into your System Folder. The exact file you download to get it is one of the following, which is entirely up to you to choose, for different results (and different machines):

- "v20251117-10.2.1-macminig4.sit" from the end of the first post on this thread on "Mac OS 9 Lives!" (or click here for a direct download link), if you want to boot System 7.5 or later on a Mac mini G4 only. Requires being logged in on "Mac OS 9 Lives!" to download;

- "Mac.OS.ROM_10.2.1_patched.bin" from this direct link (modern browser required). If your Mac is a G4 that officially supports Mac OS 9.2.2 or earlier, this one might be your best bet;

- " Mac.OS.ROM_2.5.1_patched.bin" from this direct link (modern browser required). If your Mac is a G3, this one might also be worth a shot;

- " Mac.OS.ROM_1.7.1_patched.bin" from this direct link (modern browser required). If your Mac is a G3 that works with this, it might give you the best compatibility out of all ROMs, but at the expense of e.g. USB support.

Step 4. There is no step 4. :) Just boot and enjoy!

Well, actually, you might have to also see if you got the latest Control Panels and Extensions for your system of choice, and it might take some experimenting before everything works as well as one would like.

If installing Mac OS 8.x instead, it's all the same, except you don't need step 2.

If you want to boot Mac OS 8.6 specifically on a G4 Mac that is too new for it, such as the MDD, make sure to also drop in the file "Sawteeth" in the System Folder, which you get from "Sawteeth.sit" from Mac OS 9 Lives! from the same thread (or, if you prefer, this direct download link if you are logged in).

Hope this helps!
15 Operating System / Re: System 7 natively boots on the Mac mini G4!
November 28, 2025, 07:12 		@ShinobiKenobi You're welcome, but I hardly did anything other than bring in the news! The real ones to thank are Rairii for making older systems compatible, and, as for the mini G4, ELN for making the scripts and sharing it with everyone. And also Mac84 for archiving the CHRP discs. :) (Plus everyone else.)

A mini is cool, but keep in mind you can do all this with ANY New World ROM Mac. I put emphasis on the mini since that's the ground I directly covered, and also because the mini, of all machines, is just about the most absurd one to boot System 7, but you can join in on the fun with just about any PowerMac! (Old World ROM ones usually already could have all this fun!)
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