System 7 natively boots on the Mac mini G4!



Welcome, Guest \| Home \| Search \| Login \| Register


Author	System 7 natively boots on the Mac mini G4! (Read 5471 times)
ReleaseTheGeese 32 MB Posts: 37 Division 1 Computer Support	Reply #30 on: December 04, 2025, 16:15 What an achievement! Now this is what draws us to retrocompting. It's like we've frozen time back in the era where it still felt like new and exciting things were happening and they actually are again - real achievements, unlike cynical B2B SaaS or "A.I." for your fridge. In short: Any significant advancement using outdated technology is indistinguishable from magic.

Jatoba 256 MB Posts: 270 System 9 Newcomer!	Reply #31 on: December 04, 2025, 20:51 OK, this came out sooner than expected... Or should I say, this was never truly expected. I'm posting this on all 3 Mac communities I put the original post in, because it's that much of a big deal. Many of us know System 7.1.2 was the first ever version of Mac OS to support PowerPC-based Macintoshes... ... Yet we couldn't go below System 7.5. Until a day ago: http://revontulet.org/2025/12/04/728169f1b30e4a629308c728fbe40a56.jpg Rairii just released not only an update to his System Enabler for System 7.5 ~ Mac OS 7.6.1, but also a separate patching effort of the same System Enabler to get System 7.1.x booting. So this achievement alone is BEYOND newsworthy... ... But it doesn't stop there. No. You'd think a PURE 68k OS wouldn't boot in PowerPC in bare-metal: http://revontulet.org/2025/12/04/dd1f97c7831b4aae999eb43e19aee4e4.png System 7.1.1... http://revontulet.org/2025/12/04/56bbe94625c34d10ba74db17d68178b7.jpg ... And System 7.1. "To boldly go where no PowerMac has ever gone before." This is precisely what we theorized earlier, and the thoughts we entertained: with Apple's 68k emulator residing in the Mac OS ROM file, we now have the LATEST version of said 68k-to-PPC CPU instruction converter, making ALL OF 68k run as if it was no different than a Java runtime, with "68k bytecode", if you will. A whole OS done that way. And guess what? System 7.1 is so light, so fast, I cannot even SEE the "Welcome to Power Macintosh" screen or any of the Extensions loading, because they all just load INSTANTLY. If you blink for even a moment, you WILL miss all of it. It got to the point that the OS is so light, what takes the "longest" to load is the Mac OS ROM itself! You know that finished loading after you are past the Happy Mac part. Anyway... There some points about these achievements I'd like to clarify: - The OSes seem to pair with the Finder as follows: System 7.1 Finder 7.1, System 7.1.1 Finder 7.1.3, System 7.1.2 (and 7.1.2P) Finder 7.1.4. Note that System 7.5 is also paired with Finder 7.1.4; - Systems 7.1.1 ~ 7.1.2P aren't able to run their Finders (crash+reopen Finder eternal loop), but if we swap them in with Finder 7.1, it all works, which is how I took those screenshots (Rairii figured this out first, as well); - Systems 7.1.1 comes with its various own "System Enablers". You must delete them first so they don't intervene with Rairii's Enabler, as it's all System 7.1.1 needs. If you don't, you will see this instead. If you do, and please correct me if I'm mistaken, it seems like Rairii's Enabler gets its Resource Fork updated to also error out like this even after you got rid of the other, pesky enablers (I did an MD5 check for both forks to confirm). So if that happens, unpack Rairii's Enabler anew and discard the old one; - System 7.1.2 (7.1.2P untested) is just like 7.1.1 in that it comes with its own Enabler that you need to get rid of first, in order not to face the same issue. In this case, it's called the "PowerPC Enabler"; - I could boot all these OSes with all Extensions on. I did get this and this as warning messages, though, after boot, at least with System 7.1.2; - Funnily enough, System 7.5 has the same Finder 7.1.4 as System 7.1.2(P), but there are no issues with it there. Likewise, System 7.1.2(P) is fine with a different Finder. The problem only materializes when both are present simultaneously, but not individually. Incidentally, Finder 7.1.3 on System 7.1.2(P) will also have the same issue, as will the Finder that came with System 7.5, hence why we settle for Finder 7.1 (there are no Finder version 7.1.1 and 7.1.2 that I could find). I think that's about it. So to highlight one of the interesting features of e.g. System 7.1.2P, it is the latest version of the OS that is still able to format disks as MFS. Nearly all of the later System 7 versions can both read from and write to existing MFS disks, but not format one anew. (So a Mac mini G4 CD for 7.1.2P could, one day, be theoretically cool to have. It is also a relatively popular System 7 version choice by many.) There's also one more thing: Personally, I never really coexisted much with Mac OS before the System 7.5.x era. So I can't say what should be or should not be working at this point anymore... And I could use more people exploring this together with me. But what I can say is that System 7.1.x was almost as stable as the 7.5 and later counterparts on the Mac mini G4 1.5 GHz model (this hardware is so overkill). Most apps ran, but some, such as "The Teleporting Inchworm" (my personal choice of basic System features benchmark in this project) no longer runs (and freezes the OS). But maybe it was never meant to run on System 7.1 to begin with? Some might now be wondering, "What about System 7.0 and 7.0.1?". From what I understood, System 7.1.x used a different "format" for its System Enablers compared to 7.5.x and 7.6.x, which is why we now have 2 different Enablers, but it seems no version of Mac OS before 7.1 is even aware of System Enabler files at all! (So-called "gibblies" or "gbly" type.) So... yeah. Only time can tell what happens or not after this! As always, many thanks to Rairii for yet another groundbreaking update! The latest enablers can be found in his GitHub project page, as per usual, which are also mirrored here in the Garden for both archival and easier access from Mac OS itself. Make sure to check the release notes for details. This time around, the Mac OS ROMs are the same as the previous release, so nothing new there to think about.

ShinobiKenobi 256 MB Posts: 362 System 7 fan	Reply #32 on: December 04, 2025, 21:00 @Jatoba I should have mentioned that the mouse is the Apple USB Mouse that came standard with all G3 iMacs. It's weird, because like I said, it worked just fine on my modern Linux computer. I swapped it with a third-party wireless USB mouse, which works fine on the iMac, except that holding its buttons down doesn't eject CDs when it's turned on.

cballero 1024 MB Posts: 1176 System 7, today and forever	Reply #33 on: December 04, 2025, 23:27 @ShinobiKenobi: that's so crazy bro! however, these tips from our buddy Adespoton over at the MG might be of help in figuring some of these things though! And for older OS X browsers that can open https sites but have trouble with GitHub, here's a (modern) link to the latest ROM files
Last Edit: December 04, 2025, 23:54 by cballero
ShinobiKenobi 256 MB Posts: 362 System 7 fan	Reply #34 on: December 05, 2025, 01:18 Thanks cballero, but I'm not in the mood to test my luck any further. I already want to take my iMac to a testing range and drop one on it from a B-52. I'm out of tolerance for all these wild, bizarro glitches in the matrix that I've seen for decades from Macs. My Macs already seem to have a more difficult time just working normally than a drunkard has of walking in a straight line.
Last Edit: December 05, 2025, 01:20 by ShinobiKenobi
cballero 1024 MB Posts: 1176 System 7, today and forever	Reply #35 on: December 05, 2025, 03:56 As a (possibly tiny bit of a) consolation, I rarely test software on my actual Macs first: I tend to try things out in SheepShaver, Basilisk II and QEMU before attempting something new on my Macs; the one exception to this was installing the specially prepared OS 9 on my G4 mini, knowing that its internal speaker would have no output. I think I'll try this approach on SS since it emulates the Beige G3, which is one of my real Macs. But as progress on this front continues, I may feel brave enough to try some of these things on my G4 mini, since it seems to have better luck with this first pass, knock on wood! but I totally hear you about not wanting to step onto any more landmines with your iMac!
Last Edit: December 05, 2025, 06:21 by cballero
ShinobiKenobi 256 MB Posts: 362 System 7 fan	Reply #36 on: December 05, 2025, 19:34 I historically have bad luck on or around full moons. I've been to the hospital twice during one, and a monitor of mine went bad last night, with the mouse the previous night. It seems superstitious, but it's a years-long pattern.

wove 1024 MB Posts: 1363	Reply #37 on: December 06, 2025, 23:35 I finally got everything setup so I could install System7.6.1 using RossDarker's restore image. The install went without a hitch and my 1.42 GHz MacMini boots right up into System 7.6.1. I did notice the resolution issue mentioned in an earlier post. Just to see what would happen I switched a DVI to VGA adaptor over to a DVI to HDMI adaptor and that was all it took to get a full screen desktop. The bigger issue I ran into is networking is broken. The TCP/IP control panel insists there is no Ethernet connection even though there is one. It wants to use AppleTalk and keeps switching to the "Printer Port" even though there of course is no "Printer Port" on the Mini. I have a USB stick with my Classic Mac favorites on it, but when I formatted the thumb drive I did it with HFS+, so I can not read it with 7.6.1 and will have to remake it. I made up the thumb drive years ago when as far back as I could reach was OS 9 and not expecting I would be doing 7.6.1 on anything besides emulation. Overall I am off to a jittery start with more work needing to be done. I noticed that OpenDoc was pre-installed on the restore image. Excellent work:), thank you everyone !!

snes1423 256 MB Posts: 458 A Man born of Mechina	Reply #38 on: December 07, 2025, 00:20 where is this restore image located and how ca i burn it under Linux Mint using Brasero

wove 1024 MB Posts: 1363	Reply #39 on: December 07, 2025, 00:41 The restore image is contained on the CD installer. It uses Apple Restore to be put on the target machines hard drive and would not be usable from any non Apple Hardware. The RossDarker's System 7.6.1 Mac mini installer, will boot the mini. It then runs Apple's disk utility to format the Mini's hard drive, and then you run Apple's restore program to place a working System 7.6.1 on the Mini. It is designed to be used on the Apple Mini.

ShinobiKenobi 256 MB Posts: 362 System 7 fan	Reply #40 on: December 07, 2025, 07:13 I prefer K3b. It has way more features, and is more polished. There was a time I used Brasero, but it gave me some problems. K3b says the image is not a recognized image file or something, but ignore it and burn it anyway. It works. It's cool that it's working for you wove. I'm sure it'll just keep getting more compatible.
Last Edit: December 07, 2025, 07:20 by ShinobiKenobi
Jatoba 256 MB Posts: 270 System 9 Newcomer!	Reply #41 on: December 08, 2025, 08:29 Mac7News again! Rairii figured out all that System 7.0.x needed in order to fully use and acknowledge the existence of the Enablers, more appropriately-called "Gibblies", which is to take the boot 2 (and optionally boot 3) resources from System 7.1 and put them on System 7.0.x! So I went ahead and tried exactly that, on the Mac mini G4 as always: 7.0.1 (International English): http://revontulet.org/2025/12/08/6e5503572a804f9aad5b2736f5e48656.jpg 7.0 (International English): http://revontulet.org/2025/12/08/1b6fad33426d47ac9481584c520c3aab.jpg Well, that's it. It's completely CRAZY all of this got this far. Incidentally, this patching might also assist older 68k Macs that required an Enabler to boot System 7.1 in a way so that they also boot 7.0.x (at least in theory). Oh yeah, and it's incredibly stable, too. Played and completed a game of Shanghai II on these. Ran Glider flawlessly (lack of sound aside), too. Things just... work. Smoother than butter, it's playing with lightning! Anyone can replicate this with easy ResEdit copy + paste, but just in case anyone wants an ever bigger shortcut, I attached a patch for 7.0 and 7.0.1 to this post (on "Mac OS 9 Lives!", login required), which I created with ResCompare 2.6. You double-click it, then click on the button to patch, then select your System 7.0 or 7.0.1 file accordingly. It may or may not require the "International English" version for my patches, though, but I'm not sure. The patches do work on the International English release, though, that much I can say. Also note that the patches create an unmodified backup file called "System (original)", just in case, but make sure you don't leave the backup inside your System Folder by accident. This was my first time actually using ResEdit OR ResCompare in all my life. But wow, they are easy and nice. (Had to increase allocated memory on Get Info to both, though, which you must if you do any of this patching by hand!) One way or another, we got ALL versions of System 7 now covered. Insane. Rairii also intends to look into the lack of audio one day, so this might not be over yet from his side. Just to address our next natural expectation: "WHAT ABOUT SYSTEM 6?" This one seems like it won't be easy (not that most of this was, as extremely few people on Earth have the ability + interest to do what Rairii did up until this point). Rairii is working on this, but there can't be any guarantees. It seems that even Macsbug is not working in this case? System 6 is just too much of a departure from System 7 and later. Code only present in Old World ROMs will be needed this time around, one way or another. Now only time can tell what will or will not happen!

rbdr 1 MB Posts: 1 System 7 Newcomer!	Reply #42 on: December 08, 2025, 22:36 I tried this today, it's impressive and very fast! Thanks for putting this post together @Jatoba! My experience so far: - It didn't work with my main monitor. I have a small utility panel that I use for cases like this. I have the same issue with 9.2.2 but there I can set more resolutions <-- Maybe something like Multi-Resolutions can help me here? (https://macintoshgarden.org/apps/multi-resolutions) ... I'll try and let you know - The startup disk selector doesn't work, as already mentioned by @RossDarker, and weirdly with my main keyboard neither do any of the boot shortcuts. It does work connecting an ADB keyboard via wombat, then I can boot to a CD and bless the system 9 disk again. This is really cool!

cballero 1024 MB Posts: 1176 System 7, today and forever	Reply #43 on: December 09, 2025, 23:19 Oh, and Jatoba booted so many Classic OSes on his mini, ha actually got sound to work on 9.2.2! it's not perfect, but sound on Mac OS's been a no-can-do forever on any of the G4 minis! JT, you're awesome, man! Please image that specific system folder so it can be replicated easily by others and that key secret sauce is not lost!

snes1423 256 MB Posts: 458 A Man born of Mechina	Reply #44 on: December 09, 2025, 23:28 any luck with Ethernet? I imagine wireless airport isn't possible (yet)

	Pages: 1 2 [3] 4

© 2021 System7Today.com.
The Apple Logo, Macintosh™, Mac OS™, and others property of Apple Computer, Inc.
This site is in no way affiliated with Apple Computer, Inc.