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Author Happy 40th birthday, Macintosh! (Read 103760 times)
Bolkonskij
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Reply #30 on: May 02, 2024, 12:53

wove, I also enjoy opening up these "time-capsules" and reading about how users perceived certain things when they were new.

It allows to reflect on "computing axioms". Like how used we've become to using a mouse as an input device! Yet in the comment you can read how the user struggles with using a mouse in a word processor ("It's tough for me to get the cursor into the middle of a word").

We take a lot in computing for granted and rarely ever question it. It's old posts like these that open up the perspective for me.
Last Edit: May 02, 2024, 16:15 by Bolkonskij
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Reply #31 on: May 02, 2024, 13:39

What goes around, comes around. My youngest Granddaughter is now in middle school. The school system uses tablets (iPads) rather than computers. So anyway she is much like myself in the mid 80s, seeing a mouse as a rather clunky device for input. I gave her an old computer, but it just set in the closet. She said it was clunky to use and just took up too much space. I replaced the computer with an AIO with a touch screen.

She uses it, by putting a pillow on the desk and laying the AIO on it, using the AIO much like one would use a drafting table. Anyway it is interesting that I have seen the computer mouse revolutionize computing only over time become seen as too clunky to be easily usable. And 40 years ago that was my first reaction to a mouse as well.
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Reply #32 on: May 02, 2024, 22:45

I remember having to constantly clean the ball and rollers, the rollers in particular were a pain, normally a paper clip or something similar and 10 minutes of my life.
I think my first mouse experience was around my friends house when he was brought an Atari ST for his birthday, I must have been 12-13, it was quite an alien experience at the time as I was still using my 8-bit zx spectrum with cassette storage and a whopping 48k. Actually using a mouse properly myself was a Mac II at college, awesome for graphic design and never looked back, made so much better by optical ones. I never got on with roller ball devices or track pads. So thank you Apple for popularizing the mouse.

What is an AIO Wove?
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Reply #33 on: May 02, 2024, 23:26

Oh my gosh, I really don't miss cleaning those little mouse rollers from...whatever it was they were always getting gummed up with...compressed skin flakes?  Gah! 

My first experience with a mouse was being in awe of seeing a Lisa in a showroom...I was disappointed that it seemed to be turned off.  I walked up to it and curiously touched the mouse...and jumped when the screen lit up!  My first experience with a screen saver, too!

My best friend in High School was an artist.  She got one of the first Amigas when they came out and produced some amazing digital art.  She described drawing with a mouse being like drawing with a potato!
Last Edit: May 02, 2024, 23:28 by lauland
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Reply #34 on: May 03, 2024, 00:15

My dell has a 2002-ish black PS/2 mouse with a ball in it
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Reply #35 on: May 03, 2024, 00:29

Quote from: “Neal_SE30”
What is an AIO Wove?

AIO is all in one. An Se/30 is an AIO as all compact Macs, iMacs, eMacs, etc. The unit I was referring to specifically was a 24” Lenovo. The inputs/outputs on the device are all parallel to the front, so one can pop off the stand and lay it flat on the desk. It takes touch and stylus input making. It into something of white board.

When the grandkids stop over we plop it down on the table and have fun in a draw/paint program. (Typically TuxPaint, mine does not run a Mac OS.)
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Reply #36 on: May 06, 2024, 17:28

Quote from: Barbara Koalkin, Product Manager Macintosh on May 3rd, 1984
1.  The external 3 1/2 " drive for Macintosh will be available for sale at all dealers next week.  The Sony drives are extremely reliable, and failure rates are very low.

2.Currently there are 9 applications out for Macintosh:

  MacWrite, MacPaint from Apple;
  MultiPlan and Basic from Microsoft;
  MAGICPhone by Artsci;
  ClickArt by T/Maker Graphics;
  MacForth by Creative Solutions;
  Transylvania by Penguin Software;
  and MegaMerge by MegaHaus.

In May developers expect to ship ten applications (including Microsoft Chart), and in June there should be at least 35 additional applications (eg. Macintosh Pascal).

3. All Apple products are under 90 day warranty.  All Dealers are required to stock spare parts for our computers.  The Macintosh reliability rate has been extremely high.  I'm surprised to hear that this particular person has had trouble with servicing his Macintosh.  If he would call Apple (Donna Dubinsky, Manager of Distribution) in Cupertino I'm sure she would be more than happy to help solve the problem.

Hope you continue to enjoy your Macintosh.

What a small world the computing world was! Directly calling Apple's Manager of Distribution because of a technical problem and enjoying a liberary of 9 (NINE!) software titles available, what a choice :-)

I guess it's really hard to grasp how things were back then from where we are today ...
Bolkonskij
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Reply #37 on: June 08, 2024, 06:03

Quote from: Tony Siegman, 5th Jun 84
Great pride attaches to Mac's small footprint -- only "x" inches wide and "y" inches deep.  In fact, I have a shelf just "y" inches in depth right beside my desk...obviously a great place to put the Mac.

Except, those big rigid cable connectors sticking out behind the Mac (and most other terminals and PCs) add effectively at least 2", and closer to 3" to the required depth.  We need all this hardware to attach 3 or 4 tiny wires?!?!

In addition, if you happen to be carrying your Mac around the house with the cables attached, and you catch one of those connectors on a piece of furniture or the edge of a doorway, it breaks off the whole connector receptacle, in a manner that's most excruciatingly difficult to repair...

My vacuum cleaner neatly rolls up and stores its own cords; so does my slide projector.  With all the sophistication involved in the design of these computers and terminals, when is some elementary product design ingenuity going to be applied to simple cable connections that come out the bottom of the machine, or a slot or a little enclosure, or something!!!

Apple, are you listening...?

Another "original" 1984 complaint... and actually a pretty good one. Interesting comparison with vacuums. I would have loved such an elegant solution for the "cable mess".
Bolkonskij
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Reply #38 on: September 19, 2024, 07:47

Somewhat controversial voices are being heard after Apple announced the 512k Mac ("Fat Mac") back in late 1984 and I've found them entertaining and interesting to read. Remember it the next time you feel bad about churning out 100$ to have your System 7 Mac recapped ;-)

Quote from: Mike Conley, 18-Sep-1984
I just received news concerning the Fat Mac, of which we have all heard so much: the Macintosh, with 512K.  It has been released and is on its way, delivery date approximately three weeks (or thereabouts; delivery dates haven't been Apple's strong point lately).

I also received news about its price. Brace yourselves.

$995.  Yes, you read right: that's nine hundred ninety-five big ones, to be removed deftly from your wallet and placed just as deftly into theirs. All that on top of the $2495 (or $2195, if you happened to get it in one of the recent sales that have started to spring up here and there) which all us Macfans have already shelled out.

[Background:  My friends and I who purchased Macs are not the businessmen-types that the Mac seems to be aimed at.  We are but simple college students, not fortunate enough (or rich enough, as the case may be) to attend one of the schools in the Apple University Consortium, and get our Macs for dirt cheap.  No, we go to the University of New Mexico, in the Land of Enchantment (Land of Enchantment? You've got to be kidding.

Do you know what it feels like to live in one of the few places in the civilized world where you can still catch the bubonic plague?  The PLAGUE, for God's sake!!!).  Therefore, we had to spring for the big bucks, and don't get off on this account.  OK, back to righteous indignation.]

They have got to be kidding!  When the Mac was first announced, the price was $1995; not bad, considering what you get in a Mac.  Then, when it finally saw the light of day, filtered through display windows, the price had somehow escalated to $2495 -- for the bare-bones system, of course. Steep, but still within the range of those of us fortunate enough to have that kind of cash handy or to have a sympathetic loan officer.  This, of course, was the 128K Mac; the fully-realized Mac was on its way, by the end of the year, just hang on, we'll get it to you, 512K, Real Soon Now, wow, gosh ...

Well, they sure got it to us, all right.  For the measly sum of damn near a thousand bucks extra, we plebes can get ourselves the system that should have come out in the first place.  So now Apple has us all over a barrel.  We all sprung our $2995 for the Mac and the printer, and shortly afterwards realized that the thing was absolutely useless without the second disk drive.  So, another $495 went down the drain.  Next comes the realization that with the basic 128K, the user is left with too little memory to accomplish anything significant.  So, another $995 down the tubes.

Thus Steve Jobs' vision of the computer that anyone can use has become the computer that no one can afford, because a workable system sells for $4485. What a bargain!

Looks like Steve & Co. are standing by to rake in the big bucks; The Rest of Us can all bend over and grab our ankles.  It's coming in dry, folks; no Vaseline on this one.

Now, damn it, I really like the Mac -- I really do.  It's got a few rough spots, but nothing a little software and minor hardware changes couldn't fix.  That's what the Fat Mac was supposed to be all about, at least as far as hardware went.  I, personally, wouldn't own anything else, certainly not another faceless, amorphous blob from the IBM PC CloneMakers.  All in all, I think it's the best thing to hit the market since -- well, since the Apple II.  And buying Apple is like buying Hewlett-Packard: once you buy one, you tend to stick with it.  At least, I do, and I'm sure there's a lot of people out there like me.

But pulling little stunts like this is not going to earn old Stevie Boy any new friends.  I can hear Jerry Pournelle cackling away in the depths of Chaos Manor now, chortling, "I told you so!"  Oh, sure, eventually the price of the changeover will probably drop -- maybe to $500.  The point is, however, that it shouldn't have to.  $500 is the price they should be charging now -- and even that's excessive.  They should properly be giving the damn thing away for the price of labor, since the price hike in the beginning covers what the upgrade should be costing now.  But they won't. And by delivering yet another shaft to the long-suffering-but-loyal followers of the Macintosh, Apple has shown that, in the end, they're not that much different from any other computer company, that they don't really give a damn about the end-user, and that the final arbiter is, as we all suspected but hoped against hope was not true, the bottom line on the ledger books.

I guess 1984 is a little more like _1984_ than we might've hoped.

From The Rest of Us to Apple: one extremely loud and heartfelt Bronx cheer.
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Reply #39 on: September 19, 2024, 09:22

Woah, they were able to use that kind o'language in 1984? :O

Somebody should have told the author, that the PC business isn't the salvation army.
Last Edit: September 19, 2024, 09:24 by 68040
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Reply #40 on: September 19, 2024, 13:12

For those who are looking for a new English idiom the proper smack down for Apple reviewers right from the first Apple products up to the latest Apple products would be:

"They would complain if you hung them with a new rope."

<https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/you%27d+complain+if+you+were+hung+with+a+new+rope>
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Reply #41 on: September 20, 2024, 17:13

Yesteryear's cool college kid knew how to talk smack, huh? :-) But he made a point. Lots of angry people talking about it. Maybe unlike today's generation who accept everything with a shrug. Here's a reply to college kid:

Quote from: Michael Ward, 19-Sep-1984
Hooray for Mike Conley for telling it like it is.  Except that he was a little to kind.  He forgot to mention that if we had all waited just a few months we could have saved ourselves some big bucks.

Here's a little arithmetic:  right now I can buy a 128K Mac for $2,000. That's a $500 discount from list.  Apple has dropped the price (effective someday) by $300.  That means we can expect to see the 128K Mac (the Tiny Mac?) (The inadequate Mac?) selling for $1700.  Add a thousand to that and you get $2700.  That's what I expect to see the Fat Mac selling for real soon now.  That's $200 more than I paid for my Meager Mac.  That's a hell of a lot of depreciation to see in just a few months, just a few months after the product is released.

Just think how Apple would be doing right now if everybody had been smart and played it safe.  If everybody had realized the truth - that Apple is just another greedy, screw the customer corporation.  (Even IBM does better - they put the screws to their business partners.  Apple does it to their custumers) If everbody had played wait and see (like the folks who Apple is now rewarding), Apple would be in deep trouble right now.

Considering that, before the Mac, the only thing decent thing they produced was little more than a toy, and that they have produced failure after failure - if the Mac had not sold well that company would now be worth zip!  And we who took Apple on faith (the software will be out next month, next month, next month), who believed that Apple was a little different have been thanked in a very nice manner: "You've been stupid enough to cough up the bucks so far - so why not be real stupid and cough
up some more".

Damn you Steve Jobs.

P.S.  I've called Apple ((408) 996-1010), have you?  I was rude.
P.P.S.  What do you think of a guy who starts out robbing the phone company and ends up robbing his customers?
P.P.P.S. Is anybody going to be stupid enough to buy a Fat Mac at $3100?

We (at least me) tend to think that Apple was a better company in the past than it is now. Well, maybe that's wrong ...
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Reply #42 on: September 20, 2024, 20:12

And remember the prices quoted are in 1980's dollars!  It blows my mind how expensive computers were back in the day, and makes me grateful for how (comparably) cheap everything is these days (for the power you get).

Also makes me thankful for my parents back then, spending that much cash...well, I didn't get a Mac, just commodores, but they still took a big bite out of their budget.

In the end it paid off handsomely for me personally, leading to my tech career.  I still remember my Dad complaining about how many games my brother and I played...but when I started WRITING games, he changed his tune...reluctantly, as much as he was able.  "Games?!?  How are you going to make money on games?!?".  Of course games were just the start...I learned 6502 and 68000 assembly for games at first, but since I was self taught on the side, I tended to ace my computer classes.  (Until we got to the real "Science" part of "Computer Science"...)

I still fondly remember my college m68k assembly course, where I got to use my first Mac...and learned the crucial difference between an SE and an SE/30!  (Not everyone knew, so I'd jump on the SE/30's if I had a choice). I basically only needed to learn how to use the Mac, the assembler, and MacsBug.  I already knew the m68k like the back of my hand from my Amiga at home.

Trivia: I learned m68k assembly by looking at the output from a Pascal compiler...so my assembly had (and still does) a very "compiler" look to it, always being a good citizen setting up stack frames, etc.  Although maybe I'm misremembering...did I really know Pascal before I knew m68k assembly?!?
Last Edit: September 20, 2024, 20:15 by lauland
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Reply #43 on: September 27, 2024, 08:33

Spotted when searching a certain BCS Mac PD CD:

Quote from: Steve Jasik, 1985;
"Andy Hertzfeld talks to the Stanford techies, Feb 28
 
Living in the Palo Alto area gives me good access to Apple and the users group at Stanford gets many speakers at its Technical sessions from Apple.

Last month Tessler and Dan Cochran spoke to us about future Mac development environments and shell applications (MacApp).  Last night Andy Hertzfeld came over to show us the latest version of Switcher (1.22) and the latest goodies in the new Finder (3.0x).

The Finder now has a generalized way of selecting a set of applications to switch between without incurring the full overhead of the Finder, similar the the "transfer" menu bar in the MDS package, but more general, it looks nice.  The new Finder is distinctly faster than the current one.

Andy also talked about the Laser printer and the crazies over at Adobe who insisted on using floating point arithmetic to do their calculations.  Part of the reason that it is a bit on the slow side.  He thinks that the ROM upgrade (to 128K) will not be done until this fall when Apple will also upgrade the disks to double sided and add a hierarchical file system as well.

He told us that one of the Apple engineers saw the adjust the pot fix for the Mac XL, got mad and came up with a real fix that includes a new set of ROMs for the Lisa (oops, I mean Mac) and some changes to the video board.  Square pixels on the Lisa, wow!  I asked Andy if one could use the workshop with the fix in, and he replied that it was like a sex change operation. We spent some time chewing the rag about future Macs, which probably will contain a 68020.

Andy told us of one incident a few years ago when he purchased his  Apple II.  He was so excited about having a computer of his own that he  had absolute control over that he kept on toggling the power switch until he blew the power supply.

He also mentioned that some commercial software checks for the presence  of Macsbug and takes action to nullify it as a tool for removing copy protection code.  This is one thing the programs can't do to MacNosy as they are not active when MacNosy is running."

Wow, we had to wait until US Fall 1985 for double-sided floppy disks AND HFS !  :)
  The Mac Plus may have been in development stages at the time, so maybe Jan 1986 was the big day.
Last Edit: September 27, 2024, 08:45 by MTT
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Reply #44 on: September 27, 2024, 17:06

Found this fascinating internal Apple document, a snapshot of what they were working on in 1989.  "Big Bang" or, as we know it, "System 7".  "Blue book" in two parts:
https://archive.org/details/bitsavers_applemacbl1989_63895465/mode/2up
https://archive.org/details/bitsavers_applemacbl1989_50173575/mode/2up

It's a little hard to read...not just the irritating "57" watermark that appears on every page...but also because all the bizarre Apple codenames for things, but recognizable with some guess work.  Things like a "Sofa" ended up being what we know as an "Alias"!  ("Bass"="TrueType", "Skia"="QuickDraw GX", etc etc etc).  Some of the names are known if you look them up...  But fascinating seeing them struggle with things that in hindsight seem obvious to us...and the humor and irreverence...

"Blue" refers to the classic MacOS 6/7/8/9 we know and love, current at the time, as opposed to "Pink" which was going to be the future, based on the color of the post it's to denote ideas on boards at meeting, or so the stories go.

Here's a document all about "Pink"..with more bizarre codenames:
https://archive.org/details/bitsavers_applemacpi990_138580558/mode/2up

"Pink" would've been a future Apple OS that, from what I can tell, grew/mutated out of the MacApp class library (similar to PowerPlant), eventually became Taligent, and then died on the vine when (because?) it became a joint IBM project. 

Shocking to see they seem to have had actual running/booting code...at least at some, since parts of the document refer it.  Fully object oriented, very future oriented...although...how could they have predicted the Internet?!?  A lot of amazing ideas that we didn't get for another two decades until MacOS X.  I don't think anything was salvaged, other than concepts.

I'm going to make an educated guess that the kernel and drivers WERE reused for Copland, the erstwhile "MacOS 8" that also failed and was canceled.  A lot of the terms and concepts are extremely familiar, like having "Teams" of processes/threads, etc.  But that was pretty much it, Copland was far less futuristic than "Pink".

Bittersweet to see so many cool "Apple" ideas that never bore fruit...and so tempting to imagine what would've come out of it if IBM hadn't gotten involved...but, realistically, if they couldn't pull off "Copland", there's probably no way they had the resources for something as huge as "Pink"...
Last Edit: September 27, 2024, 17:10 by lauland
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