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| Author | Setting up FileMaker for two locations over the Internet (Read 28150 times) | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Bolkonskij
Administrator 1024 MB  Posts: 2023 
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Reply #15 on: December 08, 2023, 17:21
Yeah, MTT and wove don't stop to impress me with their knowledge of certain things and the "circumstancial knwoledge". This was an interesting read, thanks MTT! Maybe we should change your username to MTTpedia ;-) |
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MTT
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256 MB  Posts: 394 SSW7 Oldtimer
Reply #16 on: December 09, 2023, 01:07
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Heh, I do hope not 
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cballero
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1024 MB Posts: 1176 System 7, today and forever
Reply #17 on: December 10, 2023, 00:29
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Wow! Thanks for that keen insight into FMP, MTT! I used v2.1 back in the day, and then fast forwarded to version 12 I think? for an office project and kept it very simple of course! I always enjoyed its simplicity  With the developer Ed. and several licenses on the MG, I think it'd be fun to test them, just not sure which of the two would be better on 68k Macs. I imagine 4.1 is as capable as 4.0, but don't want some surprise limitation or handicap in 4.1. Version 4.0 is a developer edition, so I'm wondering if it is more capable than the FMP 4.1 release? Apparently the 4.0 bug fixes practically turn it into 4.1, with the only significant difference that 4.1 on a PPC Mac handles OBCD connections SQL databases, but needs a PPC Mac for that option  So it would seem either version is fair game as far as feature set on 68k Macs. To be sure, once you start playing with FM databases, it's pretty addicting! I added the user manuals to both versions on the MG as well. They give a good blueprint to building FM DBs and talk about each version's feature set in-depth.
Last Edit: December 10, 2023, 11:42 by cballero
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68040
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512 MB Posts: 950 68k - thy kingdom come, thy will be done !
Reply #18 on: December 10, 2023, 19:42
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@cballero - I have a collection of sample databases. Let me know if you need some.
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cballero
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1024 MB Posts: 1176 System 7, today and forever
Reply #19 on: December 10, 2023, 19:54
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Yes, please!! That would be fantastic, 68040  There was a Mac Bible for FMP 4 w/a CD full of templates, I wonder if someone has it someplace from the MG?
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MTT
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256 MB Posts: 394 SSW7 Oldtimer
Reply #20 on: December 11, 2023, 01:18
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@cballero: Thanks. Bit of a potted history really, but I think it's good to discover a little about an important software's roots. The Developer Edition of 4.0 will have the tools someone would have required back then to create custom database solutions for small business to corporate entity, with a licensed FMP 4 Runtime engine for distributable applications. Today, a copy of the standard FMP 4.0 is pretty much anyone would require for creating personal FMP 4 databases these days. i.e.; I couldn't see any business entity wanting to use a 1990's database solution in the 2020s. Still, the Developer Edition is probably good to play around with all the same. The entry fee is time only The difference between Claris FileMaker Pro 4.0 and FileMaker Inc's v4.1 standard editions is small. Mainly 4.1 is a re-badging of 4.0 plus any bug fixes and the optional 3rd party ODBC support content for PPC. 4.1 does support the Euro symbol and notes that using this feature may not be backwards compatible with v4.0 DBs and earlier. Significant, is that v4.1 is the final FileMaker Pro to run on 68k Macintosh, and a Mac Plus and above, at that. Thank you too, for the FileMaker Pro 4.1 (and 4.0) User's Guides. I have hard copy manuals for version 4.0, but nothing for 4.1. The 4.1 PDF is of exceptionally good quality. With full text search, and unrestricted (edit/copy), and hyperlinks throughout. You can't get much better than this in PDF format. Thanks! Chapter 11 has everything you need for getting to grips using the database to web features. Though I think it's a whole bunch easier with the simple guest to host database sharing over AppleTalk and TCP/IP.
Last Edit: December 11, 2023, 01:23 by MTT
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wove
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1024 MB Posts: 1363
Reply #21 on: December 11, 2023, 03:15
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I had a bit of database experience before getting my fist Mac, an SE. I was pretty excited to give databases a try on my new Mac. I purchased whatever version of FileMaker was out at the time (87?). I was so disappointed. FileMaker was not a relational database, it did not include a built in language, either for manipulating databases or for generating reports. It was just a simple flat file database. FileMaker probably got better, but that first impression turned me off so bad, that I never looked at FileMaker again.
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cballero
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1024 MB Posts: 1176 System 7, today and forever
Reply #22 on: December 11, 2023, 12:12
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Thanks, MTT! Yes, I went to work looking for resources and got lucky with that user guide! I felt those were at least a bit of a return for all of these goodies; now if I stumble upon more reference guides, should those be maybe bundled in a sit to use on our Macs?On another note, it looks like the FMP 4.03 updater is missing the 4.02 updater? I only mention it because according the 4.03 won't update FMP 4.01, only 4.02, so the soup natsy says, 'no bug fixes for you!' I'm also reading about the 3.0 server edition boasting even faster access, but I wonder if that's built into either 4.0 dev ed or the latest 4.1?  Might it just be time to get a little informal benchmarking done? I'm afraid I'm such a noob at all this networking stuff that I may take way too long to get to that point, lol
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cballero
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1024 MB Posts: 1176 System 7, today and forever
Reply #23 on: December 11, 2023, 20:34
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@Wove:you most likely used the FileMaker version before Claris? It was most definitely before my time, first using the latest version from around '92-93. I had never seen such a cool program, but not sure as to how relational it was back then, but the networking part was amazing to me; I want to say that I used templates to create simple databases for offices at the time and teach them how to update and recover their db files when they would get corrupted, but I think that I never optimized them to minimize corruptibility. I'm sure having a handbook on it back then could have served me well, but offices didn't mind doing a lot of backups and such to keep using their Mac solutions which ran circles around managing tasks using Excel or similar spreadsheet solutions. MS Works and ClarisWorks both had database-building functionality, but FMP really was a solid alternative to integrated Office Suites. I did like ClarisWorks' own since it worked just like a mini, personal FM database. FileMaker really stood out to me on its own both back then, and compared to doing things with spreadsheets nowadays, with a low-to-moderate learning curve for so many parts of it, with the network portion being the cherry on top!
Last Edit: December 11, 2023, 20:36 by cballero
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MTT
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256 MB Posts: 394 SSW7 Oldtimer
Reply #24 on: December 12, 2023, 03:54
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@cballero: Wonder of wonders. I have a copy of the 4.0v2 Update in my archives and have added it to the MG's FMPro 4 pages - currently at DL:#3 (I moved both updaters up, closer to the full install downloads) I know little about the server editions. I do however have a soft spot for the standard version 3.x and still use both versions 3 and 4 to this day. Version 3, I find to be both "light and fast". @wove: That might have been Nashoba Systems "FileMaker Plus", which was from about that period. It is the version before their FileMaker 4 release, and before FileMaker was acquired by Claris Corp. Yes, it was flat file based, and remained that way until FileMaker Pro 3.0, around 1995. This being when FMPro became a relational database software. Unfortunately, we don't have a copy of Nashoba's FileMaker Plus software. It would be interesting to see what it was like (good or awful).
Last Edit: December 12, 2023, 06:36 by MTT
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Bolkonskij
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Administrator 1024 MB Posts: 2023
Reply #25 on: December 13, 2023, 10:22
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I wonder if we could/should host a "demo FMP database" on S7T, for people to simply to connect + try out the feature. Because you can write so much but if you can dabble with it by yourself, the overall picture of what it can do gets much more clear? That is something I'd love to do with a lot of applications. Our applications section is essentially still what it was 20 years ago. Personally, I'd love to make it more like the Browser Central where we list the applications for various tasks (e.g. e-mail, browsing, spreadsheets, databases, ...) for people to get an overview. And then a few select ones having more detailed entries with templates, plugins, tip sheets and all the stuff you hardly find these days. Just the stuff people like us who actually use these machines can need. But then I digress ...
Last Edit: December 14, 2023, 08:15 by Bolkonskij
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cballero
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1024 MB Posts: 1176 System 7, today and forever
Reply #26 on: December 13, 2023, 22:15
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Digress away my friend! FM has always been meant to organize many aspects of life and surprisingly they built upon a model that has progressed yet has been able to stay largely the same, just incorporating more and newer features. Eventually, they settled on SaaS offerings like the rest of the planet, but the legacy they left, well, I think it holds those initial sparks of beauty and elegance that we can help recapture, one piece at a time, and doing things like the hosting option you mentioned now can really get the ball rolling for some who like yourself, didn't even know what lay behind these 68k versions of this program What's interesting in some of this is that version three came out with a server ed and could also publish to the web using 3rd-party plugins like MTT said and is optimized for network access. Version four has a dev ed which allows you to create your very own self-running db apps with little-to-no programming: I think it was that feature that made me really like it even more. What version were you thinking of hosting? @MTT: I looked for the Red Hat Linux version of FM5.5 but didn't see it anywhere in the MG; do you know if it's available anywhere else? It was the only Classic version I saw that FM lists as having a Linux Server version, so I'm curious if we should try to source it for the MG or not (maybe just link to a copy of the source maybe?)
Last Edit: December 13, 2023, 22:17 by cballero
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68040
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512 MB Posts: 950 68k - thy kingdom come, thy will be done !
Reply #27 on: December 14, 2023, 06:34
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@cballero - FMP DB formats are not backwards compatible. So, if you e.g. host v5.5 on Linux a v4 or v3 client would likely have problems connecting to it.
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cballero
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1024 MB Posts: 1176 System 7, today and forever
Reply #28 on: December 14, 2023, 15:39
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I understand What I saw that made me think of that one is that my PPC Macs could use FM Unlimited with it directly and its web publishing capabilities should allow it to be accessed via my web browsers by my virtual 68k Macs as well. I would also explore a new PPC QEMU appimage that was published in 2017 on GitHub that should work on the Linux side of my Chromebook (the link is for modern browsers): https://appimage.github.io/QEMU_PowerPC/ The biggest downside to that one is no screamer audio but I can live with that if everything else works well enough. I'll see if I can setup Mac OS 8.1 on it so it can have a FMP 5.5 client running on it. I'll still use 4.1 on my BII Macs of course, but I want to see how far I can push each one and what I can live without I'm also curious to see how the Server behaves on Linux anyway and if S7T does setup a few FMP Servers (it gives me a chance, and excuse, lol to play with a few penguins as well) it'd be nice to see how the different versions operate compared to each other:3 is the leanest using 3rd-pty plugins 4.1 as the last 68k version 5 is the last version that can run on Mac OS 7.6.1 5.5's minimum requirement is Mac OS 8.1 but also has several multi-threaded Servers for the three main OSes (not counting a dev client I think?) 6 needs at least Mac OS 8.6 and is also the last Classic version, but I suspect it's web publishing JavaScript and CSS dynamically-generated web pages may end-up choking our 68k web browsers
Last Edit: December 14, 2023, 15:46 by cballero
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cballero
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1024 MB Posts: 1176 System 7, today and forever
Reply #29 on: December 15, 2023, 04:33
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Thanks for the updater, MTT; you're a real lifesaver! I totally forgot to thank you for that!  I was able to update my 4.1 install and it's good to go now
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