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| Author | Next project ideas? (Read 43573 times) | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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lauland
512 MB  Posts: 674 Symtes 7 Mewconer! 
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on: April 20, 2024, 07:33
Hey guys, I'm ready to move on after considering Goliath m68k complete. I have Jabbernaut m68k as a previous wishlist, but wanted to check and see if that should still be a priority, or if there's any other requests. ---- I'd consider pretty much any kind of porting project, something with source already available is obviously more doable, but I'm open minded. Something PPC and getting it to run on m68k is one sort of thing, but I'm also interested in making B&W versions of games etc that currently require color, or otherwise making requirements less strict. I could also port something from another platform to Mac. And/or the other direction, something classic MacOS and making a modern version. I'd strongly prefer to work on something people would actually want and use. It'd make my small heart grow three sizes that day to work on something someone ended up using regularly or, perish the thought, daily. And/or bring new life to otherwise under utilized (but still useful!) old hardware. ---- With that said, I've got no problem working on Jabbernaut...but...I've never used it. If you guys want an m68k version, could someone give me a quick intro to it, and how to use it (ie what server to connect to, etc). Other than it's some sort of chat client, I'm totally clueless! Another possibility is a Mac version of "Attack of the PETSCII Robots", I've already got it 20%-25% there, but still wishing that could be a group effort... |
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Bolkonskij
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Administrator 1024 MB  Posts: 2023
Reply #1 on: April 20, 2024, 08:27
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Quote With that said, I've got no problem working on Jabbernaut...but...I've never used it. If you guys want an m68k version, could someone give me a quick intro to it, and how to use it (ie what server to connect to, etc). Other than it's some sort of chat client, I'm totally clueless! If you remember the 90's Instant Messengers (ICQ, Yahoo Messenger, etc.), that's basically it. What sets it apart is that you can not only talk to other Jabber(naut) users, but you can add modern day services like Facebook, Discord or Telegram via so called transports. It'll import these into your contact roster and allows you to chat with them all on your retro Mac by routing these messages to the various services! So in practice, I can send my wife a message from my 1989 Mac IIci right to her smartphone. Quote Another possibility is a Mac version of "Attack of the PETSCII Robots", I've already got it 20%-25% there, but still wishing that could be a group effort... That'd be an awesome addition as well, I had been hoping for someone porting it over to 68k Mac. I'd also like to stress that I really appreciate it that you wish to share and pass on your exceptional knowledge. I so much wish I could join in but I lack the C++ skills to be really useful. I would, however, read all your posts on it with great interest and a desire to learn. Quote wanted to check and see if that should still be a priority, or if there's any other requests.A personal dream of mine has always been to get a System 7 port of Open General. It's essentially a rewrite of Panzer General 2, which was never ported to the Macintosh (unlike the first part). Another one would be TV Tower for Mac OS, because it's the open source rewrite of such a unique game, unlike any on the Mac that I can think of. But then it's written in BlitzMax, Lua and a bit of C - which sounds intimidating.
Last Edit: April 20, 2024, 08:30 by Bolkonskij
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68040
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512 MB Posts: 950 68k - thy kingdom come, thy will be done !
Reply #2 on: April 20, 2024, 11:49
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A fully functional XML Editor would be nice.
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cballero
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1024 MB Posts: 1176 System 7, today and forever
Reply #3 on: April 20, 2024, 13:12
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Thank you so much for finishing m68k Goliath, Lauland! Your finished project will serve all Mac users well and it's a shame it wasn't worked on until now, so a million kudos for this 'Giant' treasure!!!  Handling EPUBs on 68k I've worked on converting epubs to HTML in an effort to make this newer reading file format available to the Classic Mac. My conversion process is to: 1. Use an online converter to convert an epub to a .doc file 2. Use MS Word 2001 to convert the .doc file to an HTML file This creates a file that's readable on most web browsers, and I believe converting epubs to RTF online also allows them to open in Word 4 and up as well. The ask is just to see if there's a way to avoid the Microsoft loop by accessing the first epub file format directly, which sounds like 68040's ask for an XML editor since XML plays a part in an epub's anatomy. Better MP3 stream handling on 68k The second super-cool project I'd love to see is an expansion of MPEGDEC, the most awesome (and only) 68k MP3 player!  http://www.jwgdesign.com/mpegdec/about.htmMark White originally had plans to make his app skinnable, but I think that the real ask is to fix a few minor file format-handling issues when MPEGDEC opens certain MP3 streaming formats. We're hashed out several workarounds here but it'd be amazing to update this fabulous program since it's such an important bridge between our earliest Macs and one of the most widely-used audio formats in the world. One thing I spotted was that if an MP3's cover art was kept under 20kb, its info tags would then display! As a very minor side-note, for some odd reason the Android version of Basilisk II doesn't play MP3s unless you switch the Mac's sound to 8-bit audio! I assumed MPEGDEC was incompatible with 16-bit audio, but it turns out that glitch only occurs on the BII Android port, showing that not all BII versions are equal!!!  My ultimate goal for these two asks is for 68k Macs to be able to handle MP3 streaming a tiny bit better (via a potential MPEGDEC update), a slightly less kludgy access to EPUBs than my rough workaround (XML format?) so 68k Mac users can setup and stream their personal audio (via MP3), video (via Cinepak) and book libraries (via EPUB) with ease and both the implications and applications for Classic Mac-based home-school projects would be of Goliath-proportions! in fact, I confess that Goliath was my original ask for this very same reason 
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68040
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512 MB Posts: 950 68k - thy kingdom come, thy will be done !
Reply #4 on: April 20, 2024, 13:20
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The Android build of B-II relies on very ancient code and hasn't beeen maintained for years. Better not waste too much time on it. Chroot yourself Debian or Ubuntu with tools available from the Playstore. Then use an up-to-date Basilisk II build /w Pulse Audio. And what MpegDec needs most, is an editable Playlist.
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cballero
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1024 MB Posts: 1176 System 7, today and forever
Reply #5 on: April 20, 2024, 15:12
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Agreed Would it make sense for the editor to be a simple standalone program? Or maybe a converter that can import MPEGDEC playlists? I'll post links or from threads on the link issue, I have a feeling it'll end up being a simple fix for that one
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Neal_SE30
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256 MB Posts: 401 System 7 Newcomer!
Reply #6 on: April 20, 2024, 16:38
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Well now you’re asking. I’ve never managed to get email to work on a b&w 68k mac. There must be a simple solution as nothing I’ve tried has worked.
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Knezzen
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Administrator 512 MB Posts: 608 Village idiot
Reply #7 on: April 20, 2024, 18:39
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I'm voting for Jabbernaut! It's crashy and buggy on anything pre 8.5 more or less. Would be great to be able to fix it and have a stable Jabber/XMPP to use in 7.6 and earlier together with our IM gateway. I'm competent enough to write/hack some C and C++, but not competent enough to get the Jabbernaut project to build in CodeWarrior. I have mostly messed with C and C++ on UNIX derivatives (such as Linux, OSX etc) but never managed to really wrap my head around CodeWarrior. I could maintain the code for sure if I just got the damn project to compile to begin with
Last Edit: April 20, 2024, 18:42 by Knezzen
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68040
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512 MB Posts: 950 68k - thy kingdom come, thy will be done !
Reply #8 on: April 20, 2024, 18:48
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Don't really care for Jabber and the like, as I'm unable to connect to anything with those on 68k anyway. But a working XML editor would be a boon, because those are hard enough to come by even under modern day Linux.
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Knezzen
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Administrator 512 MB Posts: 608 Village idiot
Reply #9 on: April 20, 2024, 20:34
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Quote from: 68040 Don't really care for Jabber and the like, as I'm unable to connect to anything with those on 68k anyway.The point of getting it compiled is to use it to connect to something on 68k. Works OK now, but it's quite buggy.
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lauland
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512 MB Posts: 674 Symtes 7 Mewconer!
Reply #10 on: April 21, 2024, 03:00
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Knezzen, You bring up an excellent point I hadn't really put my finger on yet...that compiler-fu is completely different from actual C/C++ programming! What I did to get Goliath building didn't really need coding per se, but enough bull headed stubbornness to wrangle libraries, settings and figuring out what was really going on in compiler warning/errors. Probably a much rarer skill, not taught today, especially with ancient compilers like CodeWarrior. Also much harder to teach or transfer that knowledge. No tutorials or YouTube videos telling you not to panic when you get 1000 errors trying to build something...or how to ignore all but the very first one per file...fix those and all the others are 99% of the time spurious! So that makes me feel...if there is such a thing as karma or cosmic forces using happenstance to bring people together...that I should tackle Jabbernaut. Because who else would do it? Note, I'm not saying who else COULD do it...it's my bull headed stubbornness more than actual skill that'd get it actually done. So I will take at least one more stab at it. I only made progress on Goliath once I realized the two fatal mistakes: screwing up my OpenSSL build and that it was pretty much impossible to build with stock CW6. I had to start over from scratch, but once I did, the parts came together in a very satisfactory way. ---- But all those other projects are totally worthy! Who says I can only work on one thing? And certainly not alone, eh?!? Let's discuss them each...
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lauland
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512 MB Posts: 674 Symtes 7 Mewconer!
Reply #11 on: April 21, 2024, 03:10
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"Attack of the PETSCII Robots": I've already done the heavy lifting. It starts, it reads the keyboard, and it displays bitmaps. If any of you want to start learning game programming or C/C++ on classic MacOS or just hone your skills, it is, frankly, ideal. It doesn't need the kind of rarer specific compiler knowledge or my exceedingly hard head, which could be Jabbernaut's only hope. I'll start another topic that lists specifically what still needs to be done. It'd truly make me warm and tingly all over (in a chaste way!) if one of you could fix this, another could fix that, etc. Really, it's at the point where the real barrier for someone is just getting it loaded in the compiler...change a line...compile...run...etc. I specifically left the function that clears a rectangular part of the screen undone as the "very first step" for someone...
Last Edit: April 21, 2024, 03:28 by lauland
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lauland
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512 MB Posts: 674 Symtes 7 Mewconer!
Reply #12 on: April 21, 2024, 03:24
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XML Editor: Goliath includes the expat library, which getting an m68k build would be key to this, so there's that. https://libexpat.github.io/ The rest would depend if we could repurpose an existing editor of any kind. Writing one from scratch is a whole other kettle of fish. Someone at MG had requested an m68k port of the Nano text editor. I figured I could do that, so chose version 1.0.0 of it, as more recent versions had dependencies on other modern libraries, and porting those also would be a whole other kind of work. https://www.nano-editor.org/ It's not proportional text, so ugly, and I didn't finish it, but just got it "working". Put that together with an expat file reader and you'd have a start. I used a curses port from Telnet, but it looks like nano probably uses some ASCII escape sequences it doesn't interpret. So it draws some "garbage" text. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curses_(programming_library) It also is NOT a "Mac friendly" program...no menus, mouse useless, and you can only load and save by typing the actual file path! I didn't put my "Mac Nano 1.0" on MG because the original requester went with Alpha instead (I think)...but I think I will now, because someone out there might use it for something as a starting point something like this...
Last Edit: April 21, 2024, 04:00 by lauland
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lauland
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512 MB Posts: 674 Symtes 7 Mewconer!
Reply #13 on: April 21, 2024, 03:26
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EPUB reader: Like the XML Editor, I think realistically if we could find an existing open source one, either for newer MacOS or a different platform, it could be possible, otherwise writing one from scratch is a lot.
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lauland
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512 MB Posts: 674 Symtes 7 Mewconer!
Reply #14 on: April 21, 2024, 03:52
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Better MP3 stream handling on 68k: ShinobiKenobi and I were chatting about this last night via HotStuff (!!Knezzen ROCKS!!) a little. The cpu requirements make this a major pain point: 68020 CPU or PPC - FPU is not required. (68040 or 68030 50Mhz recommended for realtime playback) I'd get a real kick out of using one of my m68k powerbooks as an mp3 player, but that really doesn't seem realistic without some kludging or more low-level assembly wizardry. I haven't looked at how good it is or how they did it...but stuff like caching the uncompressed results, or doing the real work remotely and only streaming from there to the m68k machine are things I'd think to try. There's a port of Linux to the (wheel) iPods as an alternate OS, and it is NOT a good experience. The little gui they wrote is nice, but it's just raw cpu that is lacking. Playback hitches and glitches...the stock iPOD OS dedicates an entire core just to playback and doesn't do jack as far as background tasks. There just isn't enough horsepower to run a real OS (even of MacOS 7's requirements) AND do playback at the same time. I'm guessing mp3 playback on a 25mhz '030 would be similar or much worse! So contemplating this as a project does not spark joy. ---- But...if it already runs to your satisfaction and just needs bug fixing, that's a whole other kettle of fish! Someone at MG had asked about m68k ports of the UAE Amiga emulator. They could only find 0.5 and wondered if there were any newer or anyone could build one. I don't know if it was the last version for lower versions of classic MacOS, but I found 0.8.6 for PPC and did an m68k port of it for him. Like mp3 playback, the performance is really NOT good on actual m68k machines. Maybe ok on a 50 mhz '040, but on my 25mhz pb 540 I wouldn't risk my sanity actually trying to use it. But, the guy who requested it was thrilled, and, hopefully, using it today...he wanted it to use in Basilisk on a modern machine!!! A little crazy, emulating an m68k cpu on an m68k emulator, but it does the trick for him, and different strokes for different folks, eh? Long story short: I'll at least take a look, even if just morbid curiosity to see how badly it runs on my '030 machines..who knows...it might run really well in Basilisk!!! (Insert tongue sticking out emoji here however you do that here)
Last Edit: April 21, 2024, 03:55 by lauland
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