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| Author | Getting a Macintosh SE (Read 38466 times) | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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ReleaseTheGeese
32 MB  Posts: 37 Division 1 Computer Support 
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on: November 14, 2022, 11:31
Greetings all, Re: my previous thread, you've managed to rekindle my interest in classic Macintoshes. It was inevitable, wasn't it? I adore the translucent plastic of the G3 but really it was too new for me. I won a Macintosh SE on eBay and will have it in my hands by the end of next week. From what I read of the auction it boots fine but may need a HDD replaced. I'd be curious to hear, are there any other SE owners here? How are the capacitors? Would System 7 run well enough on it, or would I be wiser dropping back to System 6 to make the most of the 68000? My plan is to max out the RAM (currently 1MB) and investigate how I might use it as a serial terminal, then use that to move files between it and my desktop, also to use as an actual terminal with a modern Linux system. /bin/bash is my home, and vim is my bread and butter. Soon I hope to enjoy these with a crisp monochrome display and charming startup chimes. Best regards, CM |
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wove
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1024 MB Posts: 1363
Reply #1 on: November 14, 2022, 13:24
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An SE is a very nice compact Mac. I always resisted the temptation to go with System 7 on mine, and stuck with System 6.0.5. System 6 does an very nice job of running Claris Works 3, CW3's communication module, is a very nice option for using a terminal connection to a newer machine. You can fairly easily configure it to emulate most any terminal type. A null modem cable from the SE's serial port to another machines serial port (a serial to USB adaptor typically works for machines without serial ports). My first access to the internet, was running Lynx on a BSD machine using The communication module of ClarisWorks as a terminal. It would not be at all surprising to find the capactiors are in need of replacing, they should definitely be checked. Spinning SCSI drives are getting rare, so a hardware replacement might well entail a newer adaptor using some type of flash storage. An SE is a wonderful machine and I hope you have great fun exploring its capabilities. One can find lots of information on this site, so do not hesitate to ask.
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cballero
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1024 MB Posts: 1176 System 7, today and forever
Reply #2 on: November 14, 2022, 15:21
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I second the charm of System 6 on the early Classic Macs!  I did use System 7 with my own Classic II, the only compact Mac and new Classic Mac that I bought directly from the Apple in Cupertino, CA, even though it also came with System 6.0.8L. I used (and loved playing with) SEs in school that all used System 6 on floppies but sported the newer ADB mice and smaller keyboards. I used Word 4 and various other fonts, games and tidbits during that time. It was a magical, monochrome world of wonder back then! 
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Bolkonskij
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Administrator 1024 MB  Posts: 2023
Reply #3 on: November 14, 2022, 19:15
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Congrats on your acquisition - fellow Mac SE owner here! I've got the later FDHD version with the 1.44 MB floppy disk drive. I have some good news for you: The Mac SE is reliable and does not suffer from the failing capacitors and leakage like other Macs from the era. I haven't recapped mine for example and it keeps running and running. I do have the "shaky" screen syndrome at times and I'm not sure if that is due to failing caps in the PSU / analogue board, a failing CRT screen or simply a typical SE issue. I've read people complain about it in an old MacUser issue back when it was new! Eventually you'll want to have it recapped - since the RAM upgrade might involve some soldering depending on your SE model, it might be a good idea to do it all at once. (if you feel comfortable to tackle it yourself) I've had mixed results with Hard Disk replacements on the SE - my SCSI2SD v5 wasn't recognized by any tools like LIDO or the patched Apple tool. It took my IIci (who "saw" the SCSI2SD) to initialize the disk. Ever since the SCSI2SD has been running very nicely inside the SE. I've also had success with booting the SE from my external RaSCSI. Only thing that still has me pulling my hair is getting it online through the RaSCSI and MacTCP. System 7 will run somewhat decently in its 7.1 incarnation on a SE IF you manage to upgrade the RAM to the max. 4 MB. It will boot up on a 2 MB SE, but even looking at the Finder for too long will cause an out of memory dialog pop up ... well, maybe not, but you get the idea :-) That said, as wove posted above, the SE really feels more like a System 6 Mac. That was its era appropiate OS and you'll find it to be fastest with System 6.0.8 installed. Unfortunately, that also limits you software-wise. So your best bet is to have two partitions with 6 & 7 and use a tool called "System Picker" to switch between both. A nice touch is also that an SE can do way older System/Finder combos, so a lot those old mid 80's games that are very picky on hardware and usually break with System 6 or 7 will boot up on the SE. Let us know when you get yours and what your first impression is, please :-)
Last Edit: November 14, 2022, 19:25 by Bolkonskij
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Neal_SE30
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256 MB Posts: 401 System 7 Newcomer!
Reply #4 on: November 14, 2022, 20:02
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Hey CM, Sweet machine i too love the classic compacts. Those little 9inch b&w screens are so crisp and lovely to use. I’m still a relative novice myself, the little community here though is great. Just ask! I’m not that familiar with the SE myself although i use the similar SE/30 and have used a Classic and owned a colour Classic back at college. SE’s are meant to have better caps than the SE/30 but either way it’s a 35 year old piece of technology so i’d give the board a clean up, recap and change the battery as a matter of course. Av board and power supplies seem to be better but can also require the same. I must confess i looked at mine and they looked fine so only capped the motherboard and that was 5 years ago. I agree with the others about the hdd’s I myself still have a spinny hard disk but looking to replace it shortly. The original 40mb died shortly after i got the machine but popped in a later 1gb scsi from a later mac but they’re becoming rare and pricier and lets be honest are still over 25 yrs old so is only a matter of time. Save the hassle and pop in a memory card replacement as i similar price these days. I’ve only used system 6.0.8 and that seems to be the best compromise for a 68000 between speed and usefulness. You’ll be surprised what the little boxes can do and how much software it can run. I maxed out my memory, brought from OWC in the usa. It was good value, arrived in the uk within 3-4 days. Sounds like you have some fun nights ahead, sure they’ll be some head scratching along the way but that’s part of it. Sounds like you have some plans with it already, which is awesome. I have my macs networked but actually rarely bother and use zip100. 1 x scsi on the se/30 and 1 x usb on the g3 imac and transfer that way as i just like using the media and you rarely need anything over 100mb for anything on these classic macs. You could fit a pretty large software library on 1 Zip disk!!! Anyway i’m waffling, upload a pic when it arrives excited to see it Neal
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cballero
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1024 MB Posts: 1176 System 7, today and forever
Reply #5 on: November 14, 2022, 23:05
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A few neat memory tips for using System 7-7.1 with limited memory: - run you System with unneeded control panels and extensions off - turn on virtual memory (VM) ideally set to your RAM amt plus 1MB - you can force quit the finder while using another program this frees up additional RAM to use with the program - check how much RAM your apps use vs how much it was assigned use this info to lower your apps memory on the info window A couple of more advanced memory tips to using System 7 with limited memory are listed below, but the ones above have all served me very well in the past! - swapping the HD for flash, SD and SSD memory can speedup your VM (this gives you a more advanced dual memory and speed boost) - the RAM upgrade is always one of your best options as suggested (the recapping idea while upgrading RAM from our peeps is genius, as well as replacing your parameter RAM internal battery!) The key to all this is to enjoy the process of tinkering and trying out new things (I'm a wimp when it comes to the hardware end of things, lol) 
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Neal_SE30
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256 MB Posts: 401 System 7 Newcomer!
Reply #6 on: November 15, 2022, 08:51
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Do be careful with the back of the crt (screen). Best to check guidance if you’ve not done it before. Nothing to scary. I was worried at first, now i seem to strip it down on a monthly basis lol
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ReleaseTheGeese
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32 MB Posts: 37 Division 1 Computer Support
Reply #7 on: November 19, 2022, 11:15
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Hi all, Thanks for the suggestions so far, as well as the advice from fellow SE users. Much appreciated. My acquiring of this Mac was unlikely. I found it on eBay but alas the seller wasn't for posting it (understandably, who'd trust that postal service with delicate electronics???). As luck had it, I am flying over to visit family the week after the auction ended. These family live a mere 50mins from the seller. So with the stars aligned and the low interest due to no postage, I won for a generous price I'm sure the cousins will be intrigued, and will ask if it can run Minecraft. I'm collecting it next Saturday, I'll be happy to share photos. Best, CM.
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Bolkonskij
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Administrator 1024 MB Posts: 2023
Reply #8 on: November 19, 2022, 17:30
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Good luck on your SE adventure! Let us know how it went and if everything was as expected! You can upload photos with revontulet.org (in case you didn't know) and we can even access them from our System 7 machines then. :-)
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ReleaseTheGeese
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32 MB Posts: 37 Division 1 Computer Support
Reply #9 on: November 28, 2022, 12:01
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Update. I've travelled by Air, Motorcar, Air again, bus and then train. But finally the plucky Mac SE is in my home. The seller actually had two and was willing to part with the other for the same price, and I had PayPal open in my hands but have opted to keep my money for an ADB keyboard. The keyboard ironically will cost more than the computer The system boots and doesn't seem to have any obvious capacitor problems, but I'll check using my eyes later. http://revontulet.org/2022/11/28/macpals_1_sml.jpg iMac and SE recently acquainted. http://revontulet.org/2022/11/28/se_3.jpg We have a boot! But this is as far as she gets. Still, I'm treated to a delightfully noisy 20MB SCSI drive seeking, reading and some blinkenlights. http://revontulet.org/2022/11/28/se_1.jpg Looks like she is already rocking System 7, thanks to the good folks in Division 1 Computer Support. http://revontulet.org/2022/11/28/se_2.jpg The last safety check was in April 1992, I think we can trust their word today. According to the label at the top, the system has 4MB RAM. The hard drive is functional but we get a bomb after booting then a warning to disable extensions. The disk drive is 800k. Next plan is to acquire an Apple Extended Keyboard with the proper microswitches, then see if the OS and HDD is viable. I already have a New Old Stock ADB mouse ordered. Then I'll purchase an SD to SCSI adaptor. Looks like this is the board to get now: https://amigakit.amiga.store/zuluscsi-adapter-p-91287.html?currency=GBP. I'll have to contact them and ask how it is with 68k Macs.
Last Edit: November 30, 2022, 10:24 by compact-mac
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Neal_SE30
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256 MB Posts: 401 System 7 Newcomer!
Reply #10 on: November 29, 2022, 22:53
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first up, your purchase looks awesome!!!!!!! do you have a bridge machine or a way to get software on it? I have a G3 imac and my SE/30. i love using my SE/30, b&w screen and all it's flaws, I respect my G3 imac and it's good computer but that makes no difference I enjoy using old stuff myself. all that said I use my G3 for internet and software via a zip drive. without a link you can't do shit. so either get a 2nd more modern machine or emulate. Neal
Last Edit: November 29, 2022, 23:18 by Neal_SE30
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Cashed
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128 MB Posts: 192 System 7 Newcomer!
Reply #11 on: November 30, 2022, 21:10
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I ordered the Floppy Emu Model C ~(modern link) from BMOW, a week ago for my SE. See the compatibility table ~(Link for vintage browser) If Japan is closer to you, check out Kero's Mac Mods, see Kay Koba's -> shop. ~(both for modern browsers)
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Bolkonskij
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Administrator 1024 MB Posts: 2023
Reply #12 on: December 01, 2022, 08:57
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LOL @ Computer Division 1's security check :-D Lovely machine, compact-mac! The fact it comes with 4 MB is very cool too, saves you the hassle of upgrading it yourself. The boot-up process getting stuck at the Happy Mac is something I experienced with the old 20 MB HDD in my SE as well. It appears to be an indicator that the HDD is a goner? At least I had no problem booting from floppy (after a clean) and have since exchanged the loud HDD. Do you happen to have a DD 800k System disk so that you could try to boot from that? I think I still have a handful of DD disks left here .. if you're located somewhere in Europe, let me know and I could snail-mail you one.
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ReleaseTheGeese
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32 MB Posts: 37 Division 1 Computer Support
Reply #13 on: December 05, 2022, 17:10
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Thanks again for the replies. I'll eventually grab something that does SCSI to SD I think that's the most in-budget I can afford. Currently located in Western Europe so will look for suppliers here. Then I try use something to upload files via serial, see how that goes. Would something like this work for a Mac to TTY interface? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/113123448964 I have a USB to DB-9 Serial adaptor, so will just need something to convert the DB25 to DB9 and we're flying.
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wove
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1024 MB Posts: 1363
Reply #14 on: December 05, 2022, 17:18
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Your link should work, but it seems expensive. DB9 to DB25 wiring diagrams are plentiful on the web. Here is an example. <https://blog.alphabit.org/2018/09/rs232-db9-f-db25-m.htm> It should be fairly straight forward to make your own cable. Just a thought, have fun however you go.l
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