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| Author | Emulators on System 7 (Read 75230 times) | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Bolkonskij
Administrator 1024 MB  Posts: 2023 
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on: May 17, 2021, 18:36
No. This is not another thread about emulating System 7. It's actually the other way around: System 7 emulating other platforms. Something these machines are capable of, it we're talking early 80's - Apple II, Apple //GS, C64 etc. I've been uploading an Amstrad CPC emulator to the Garden but it has been sitting on my 8600's hard disk for some time now, unused. I haven't been able to actually test it out with software. The problem really is to find ROMs of software compatible with your retro hardware. First, Netscape 4 won't work with those big ROM sites. And then there's the compatibility issue - some emulators work with special formats or older ROM dumps that are hard to come by nowadays. (think romsets for MAME) Sure, I could use modern hardware but then it's much more fun to emulate the blocky graphics of an Apple II on my Power Mac 8600 than on a Mac Pro with its insanely high resolution. Am I the only person feeling it would be cool to have a resource for that? (no, this would probably not be S7T) Anyone else emulating older 80's hardware on their System 7 Macs? Any attempts / experience as to how good emulation with various emulators is? Does anyone else know a good resource on that matter? Edit: Just a short list of emulators for System 7 that I found on the Garden: Amstrad / Schneider CPC http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/cpc-amstrad-cpccpc-emulator http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/arnold Atari ST http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/nostalgia C64 https://macintoshgarden.org/apps/commodore-64-emulator Apple I emulator http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/sim6502-apple-i-emulator Trash-80 emulator http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/trs-80-emulator-mac-os BBC Micro http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/macbeebem Apple ][ http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/ii-in-a-mac http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/bernie-the-rescue-anthology-starter-kit-30 Apple //e http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/iie Apple IIGS http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/gus-10d4 Atari ST/TT http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/magic-mac-6 Arcade http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/macmame-028-68k Colecovision http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/colem Sinclair Spectrum http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/mac-spectacle Atari 400/800/XL/X http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/wacke-160 BSD (Unix) http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/professional-machten-68k Windows / DOS http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/softwindows-10 http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/softpc-31-windows http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/connectix-virtual-pc-20 GameBoy http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/gbmac http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/virtual-gameboy (requires Appearance Manager) |
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Last Edit: June 28, 2023, 11:41 by Bolkonskij
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wove
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1024 MB  Posts: 1363
Reply #1 on: May 18, 2021, 03:43
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Minix runs on old Macs for those who are interested in a Unix/Linux environment. CP/M was actually ported by Digital Research to run on Macs. I am not sure why one would want to run that even when it was new though. Of course RealPC/RealDOS emulated MS' environment on Mac. I came to Mac from Commodore GEOS, so I actually felt like my first Mac was just a Commodore emulator.  https://www.pliner.com/macminix/default.html Minix http://www.cpm.z80.de/binary.html#operating 68K CP/m
Last Edit: May 18, 2021, 11:09 by Bolkonskij
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Bolkonskij
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Administrator 1024 MB Posts: 2023
Reply #2 on: May 18, 2021, 11:13
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wow, two awesome finds, wove. Any hands-on experience with them? And yes, porting the old CP/M to Mac doesn't seem to make sense at all. Maybe there was some demand to run a CP/M niche software on Macs, otherwise I can't think of any good reason either.
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wove
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1024 MB Posts: 1363
Reply #3 on: May 18, 2021, 16:07
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I do not find things so much as I just recall using things. Minix was included in a computer text book. It consisted of a run time layer which created a pseudo Unix environment on whatever system you were using. Linus realized that if the run time environment were made into a kernel you would actually be able to run a pseudo UNIX OS right on the hardware and hence the birth of Linux. CP/M was the major pro OS for early micro computers and it was ported to run on all manor of architectures. So it is not surprising that it was ported to run on Macintoshes, although by that time CP/M was in its twilight and micro users had found other ways to be productive. CP/M's gui was used for the Atari ST, although the under lying OS was not CP/M. While I am not positive, I would guess I have the installer floppies in my collection somewhere, even though I no longer have any system that could either read them or make use of them.
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galgot
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64 MB Posts: 66
Reply #4 on: May 18, 2021, 19:09
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There is also MachTen for 68k, which is a BSD running atop System 7 : https://macintoshgarden.org/apps/professional-machten-68k Though it is virtualization, not emulation, as no proc is emulated there. all runs on the Macs processor. Very cool. For Intel proc emulation, I managed to run BSDs and Linuxes on VirtualPC6 and 4, but that on MacOS 8.6 or 9. For System7 there is SoftWindows: https://macintoshgarden.org/apps/softwindows-10 Or SoftPC: https://macintoshgarden.org/apps/softpc-31-windows Only tried this last one with a Windows 3.1 image on a PB3400c in System 7.6.1. Runs well (well , as much as Windows can ;p). But never tried to install an old old Linux or BSD on these, that something to try... EDIT, VirtualPC 2.0 runs on System7 : https://macintoshgarden.org/apps/connectix-virtual-pc-20 EDIT2, There also a vMac version that runs on 7... So one can have System 6 (or 7?) running on System 7. Check this thread: https://68kmla.org/forums/topic/29994-mini-vmac-on-68k-powerbook/?tab=comments Seems to be super slow on a 68k though. Btw I think, the Apple Macintosh Application Environment 3.0.4 for Solaris is a MacOS emulator for Solaris, not the other way around.
Last Edit: May 18, 2021, 19:32 by galgot
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Bolkonskij
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Administrator 1024 MB Posts: 2023
Reply #5 on: May 21, 2021, 12:36
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Great stuff, galgot! added it to the list! wove, CP/M was before my time, but I've briefly seen CP/M running mid to late 80's on one of our family business computers as a child. My statement was in regards to the "sense" of porting that ugly CLI based OS to a computer that natively runs a beautiful GUI-based OS. I can't think why anyone would have chosen to run WordStar over MacWrite on his new Mac 512K, so I naturely figured that there must have been some very specialized / niche software that might make someone shell out the money for a CP/M emulator on a Mac. Meanwhile I've e-mailed the author of the original CPC++ emulator for Mac OS, btw! Asking him for sharing the sources and serials (if he still finds stuff!) and some anecdotes too maybe. He's very friendly, let's cross fingers he still finds some stuff. :-) The emulation itself works very well on my 8600 and 7.6.1. It works with usual .dsk files you find all over the internet. They do come in .zip files (which requires a modern computer to unzip first) and of course the Creator Code / Type is missing but that can easily be fixed. Other than that, I've just downloaded four old CPC games and all play in Full-Screen without errors or glitches. Very nice!
Last Edit: May 21, 2021, 15:57 by Bolkonskij
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Bolkonskij
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Administrator 1024 MB Posts: 2023
Reply #6 on: May 28, 2021, 13:13
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So I've since been continuing my quest for finding emulators on System 7 and it's a fun exploration since there has been little research on this matter, it seems. Even the Garden hosts only few applications with little or no descriptions. I started updating the C64 emulator entry today https://macintoshgarden.org/apps/commodore-64-emulator and did some testing yesterday. Couldn't get any of my test games (all disks) to run though. Some will start loading and giving me those funky-colored-loading-screens but will stop while loading. Too bad! My hope is to find a version later than 0.4 on some shareware CD maybe ...
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Knezzen
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Administrator 512 MB Posts: 608 Village idiot
Reply #7 on: May 30, 2021, 12:47
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Atari guy pitching in! NoSTalgia is great. Not sure if it runs on 7.6 though. Need to test it out. http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/nostalgia There's PowerST as well for the Mac, but I can't find it anywhere. I will upload it to the garden and post a link to it here ASAP
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Bolkonskij
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Administrator 1024 MB Posts: 2023
Reply #8 on: May 30, 2021, 16:10
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Good catch, obviously missed that one! According to the Garden's description, it should run on 7.6. I played around with GUS (an Apple IIgs emulator) yesterday evening. Came preconfigured and easy to start. Then loaded a game: California Games. But it's barely playable on my 8600 - choppy graphics and single digit fps. Guess emulating a IIgs already brings my 200 Mhz 604e to a crawl. And we're talking about computer less capable then the ST family. So I don't have high hopes for emulating a ST on System 7 unless on a system with a G3/G4 upgrade card. So, I'm curious what your results on the 5500 would be like
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galgot
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64 MB Posts: 66
Reply #9 on: May 30, 2021, 21:11
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An Atari 400 being the first computer I ever touched, I had to try... Though I hardly remember how it worked. NoSTalgia 0.65 indeed runs on 7.6.1, Tried on a PB3400c. I took the TOS.IMG and Auto Saved State files from the NoSTalgia 1.1 folder : http://images.macintosh.garden/2021/05/30/Martin-Hart-300521.jpg Have to play more with it... Cool stuff. Btw, any idea why the screenshot don't show ? I've tried both BBcode and HTTP images links provided by the MG image host service, but neither shows...
Last Edit: June 01, 2021, 09:25 by Knezzen
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Bolkonskij
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Administrator 1024 MB Posts: 2023
Reply #10 on: May 31, 2021, 16:33
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You did everything correct - we decided to convert any images to links to retain retro compatibility. Remember, we're aiming to keep this place accessible from your retro Mac. Nice progress with NoSTalgia! Color mode is also supported, is it? How was the performance?
Last Edit: June 01, 2021, 15:04 by Bolkonskij
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galgot
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64 MB Posts: 66
Reply #11 on: June 01, 2021, 12:58
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Was quite snappy . There is a color mode , but makes the "screen" super small size. Though you can use a zoom mode which makes everything (icons menus... ) larger. The TOS.IMG works fine, but I tried charging the cartridge file included, it crashed the Mac...
Last Edit: June 01, 2021, 13:00 by galgot
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Knezzen
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Administrator 512 MB Posts: 608 Village idiot
Reply #12 on: June 02, 2021, 09:24
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Quote from: galgot There is a color mode , but makes the "screen" super small size. That's ST-low and ST-mid resolutions for ya  320×200 and 640x200 respectively 
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galgot
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64 MB Posts: 66
Reply #13 on: June 02, 2021, 09:51
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Ah Ok Checked for Atari ST apps online to test on this yesterday... Gosh, they are tons.
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Bolkonskij
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Administrator 1024 MB Posts: 2023
Reply #14 on: June 02, 2021, 10:34
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Maybe "Atari guy" here can recommend us some must-have ST apps & games to try? ;-)
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