|
|
|
|
| Welcome, Guest | Home | Search | Login | Register | |
| Author | Need help deciding on System 7 machine (Read 168954 times) | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
tale3339
2 MB  Posts: 2 System 7 Newcomer! 
|
on: August 06, 2025, 07:41
Now that I've replaced my iMac G3 with a G4 Powerbook, I've been looking into selling/trading it for a System 7 or earlier Mac, for low-mid range gaming, internet surfing (mostly websites like this, nothing major), After looking around on here I've narrowed it down to 3 Macs, although I haven't been able to get a price range on most of them yet. My 1st and prime is a Powermac 4400, which seems powerful and compact enough to work. My second is a Powerbook 3400, which I like for the same reasons as the Powermac, and my 3rd is an LC III which is good for space, but seems pretty low powered for what I want to do. The price range is $100-150, which is about what I think the G3 will sell for. Sorry if this stuff is posted a lot but I can't seem to decide. |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
68kmac
|
32 MB Posts: 51 System 7 Newcomer!
Reply #1 on: August 06, 2025, 10:14
|
I've used my LC III for years (Quark, Word,...). Its a fine machine. But if you want to buy an old 68k mac, take one with 68040 inside. Try the LC/Performa 475 and replace the LC040 with 68040. So you have the FPU. 
|
Bolkonskij
|
Administrator 1024 MB  Posts: 2023
Reply #2 on: August 06, 2025, 11:05
|
Any 68k Mac pretty much puts you on the low end in terms of web browsing. I'm saying this is as the owner of IIci with a 40 Mhz CPU upgrade that I do use for web browsing. You need to be patient ;-) I post from my IIci on here using MacLynx, but it's not instant or even fast. I haven't owned a 4400, but it sure look like a very nice Mac. The PowerBook might serve you well, I personally don't like laptops for I find them much harder to service. (and given the age, you'll eventually have to service them) Another option might be getting a PowerMac 8600. Even if only the "small" version at 200Mhz. It runs System 7.6.1 wonderfully (but could also run OS 8.6 on a second partition, if you'd need it for a certain application), they're still available, relatively "young" by comparison, sturdy machines and easy to access/service. Unfortunately, prices tend to be a little higher.
|
cballero
|
1024 MB Posts: 1179 System 7, today and forever
Reply #3 on: August 06, 2025, 14:27
|
Yep, the biggest gotcha is the marked-up pricing for all the older stuff as more and more folks get into collecting them  but that’s where going to thrift shops and garage sales rely helps because not only do you get to rescue a Mac from a possibly horrible fate, you can usually get to do so for cheap, too! Just remember to not look too excited if it’s a yard sale so the price doesn’t suddenly go way up auto-magically! 
|
lauland
|
512 MB Posts: 674 Symtes 7 Mewconer!
Reply #4 on: August 06, 2025, 15:07
|
The 4400 is a bit of a odd machine inside, seemed like a bit of an experiment Apple was doing. You'd probably be happier with a machine of the 7500/8500/7600/8600 ilk, the most powerful that can run 7.6, I believe. The 7500 and 7600 are especially nice because of how easy they are to open and get to the motherboard (not like the 8500, but I think the 8600 is easy too). Avoid the similar looking 7200 as it is also odd, and only a 601. If you want m68k, definitely get an '040, and as 68kmac says, the lc 475 has the same form factor as the lc 3, but is much faster. I can't speak for laptops, as mine are either m68k or g3's. But avoid the 5300.
|
ovalking
|
128 MB Posts: 199
Reply #5 on: August 06, 2025, 15:27
|
If I had a 4400/3400/LCIII, I'd probably swap for an iMac. But I'm keeping my 7500/Duo/475 :-)-
|
wove
|
1024 MB Posts: 1363
Reply #6 on: August 06, 2025, 15:55
|
Quote from: “lauland” The 4400 is a bit of a odd machine inside That was my recollection of the 4400. I do not recall specifics, but do recall it being considered one of Apple’s half baked machines. It was built with industry standard parts, a slightly modified ATX power supply, IDE hard drive and the Tanzania motherboard, used in many clones. It was designed and built to be a low cost machine. That does not make it a bad machine, but Apple users tend to be purists and probably the “not everything designed or made here” roots turned off the loyalists.
|
lauland
|
512 MB Posts: 674 Symtes 7 Mewconer!
Reply #7 on: August 07, 2025, 00:25
|
Exactly. I didn't want to get into all that, but when you open one up and look at it, you'll think, "Is this really a mac, or some sort of mutant PC?!?". I think it was from when apple was flirting with the idea of CHRP and PREP, which were standards for powerpc machines that all the different vendors (motorola and ibm and apple mostly) would use. This didn't take off because apple didn't get on board. (Otherwise clones would have happened in a very different way) The 4400 was very close to a PREP (or CHRP?!?) mac, but apple never quite actually released one. I lie, sorta, I believe the AWS machines which run AIX, and not MacOS may actually be PREP/CHRP machines, or, if not, very very close to the standard.
Last Edit: August 07, 2025, 00:27 by lauland
|
cballero
|
1024 MB Posts: 1179 System 7, today and forever
Reply #8 on: August 07, 2025, 08:25
|
I incorrectly though you'd said the PowerMac 6400!  I'd say the 6000-series is another good option vs the 4400
|
Bolkonskij
|
Administrator 1024 MB Posts: 2023
Reply #9 on: August 07, 2025, 08:59
|
I've come around to a different view on all these "Road Apples", "half-baked Macs" and such. I think that justified verdict stems from the days when people were looking for the "best bang for the buck" to keep up with the computing evolution. But in today's terms, when buying used Macs I think most are actually an excellent buy. First, because everybody else seems to avoid them for the above reason. Second, something like a 4400 might seem odd or "un-Mac-ish" in its architecture, but its adherence to industry standards means that today you can easily get replacement parts and often at a cheaper price. Unless you want to do video editing or edit 4k images on a poor beige thing, your performance should be OK with System 7 on nearly every Mac. Even on something like the much scolded PowerMac 5xxx series. It's the beauty of System 7 that still makes it a worthwhile experience, even on e.g. a seriously underpowered PowerMac 5200 with a 603 CPU at 75 Mhz. I'm saying that as somebody who had used a PowerMac 6100 for years ;-) Hence my advice is to *avoid* machines like Quadras or a PowerMac 9600. They were former high-end machines and everybody storms online to buy them. You pay premium. Settle with the "Road Apples" if you want to get a cheap entry-level machine for the System 7 experience. Or take the middle road and go for mid-range Macs, like a LC III / IIci on 68k or something like a 7xxx series PowerMac. The latter is actually good advice.
Last Edit: August 07, 2025, 09:13 by Bolkonskij
|
lauland
|
512 MB Posts: 674 Symtes 7 Mewconer!
Reply #10 on: August 07, 2025, 15:21
|
Excellent point Bolkonskij! Avoiding models that are very popular with collectors may help you get a lot more bang for your buck. Like, get a 630 series instead of a quadra if you want an m68k. They're a lot less popular, so you might find a good deal on one. Some of the road apples are worse than others. A lot of them like the 6200 series and the 5300 are ok machines, but Apple cut corners with the architecture, reusing chips and designs from previous machines, probably in a hurry to get them out, or use stocks of chips they'd had on hand. Oh, and there's nothing actually "wrong" with the 4400's at all. They're fine machines, just "odd ducks", so I don't consider them road apples in any way. They're just weird. The 6400/6600's are quite nice, but seem to be more in demand, so prices may be higher than otherwise. If you see a good deal on a 6360, snap it up. It looks like a 6200/6300, but uses a motherboard with PCI very similar to a 6400. I love mine. If someone mistakenly thinks they're the same as a 6300 (which are considered road apples) they might be selling one cheap.
Last Edit: August 07, 2025, 15:23 by lauland
|
MTT
|
256 MB Posts: 394 SSW7 Oldtimer
Reply #11 on: August 08, 2025, 07:41
|
Quote from: tale3339: "Powermac 4400, which seems powerful and compact enough to work. My second is a Powerbook 3400" If you do settle on a 4400, before you decide to purchase, ask if it includes the 160 pin Level 2 cache DIMM. With the model 4400 a L2 cache was an optional* purchase when new. Do ask if it is there, and if not try and find another seller, or at least find out if you can source a suitable L2 cache DIMM for it. Why is this important? Because if it's not on board you will experience a performance loss of 20% to 25% than with a 4400 and onboard L2 cache included. The PB 3400. If its being sold with a piddly amount of RAM. Find out how and where to replace what's on board. If it's an uncommon rare as hens teeth RAM module, then hold off on that purchase. If it has a maxed out 144MB of RAM board, and a working good solid display, then you should be OK. *Low End Mac says with the 4400/200 a L2 cache was standard, but the Apple Service Manual states that a L2 cache for all 4400 models was optional. I trust the latter.
|
MTT
|
256 MB Posts: 394 SSW7 Oldtimer
Reply #12 on: August 08, 2025, 07:57
|
Quote from: lauland: "If you see a good deal on a 6360, snap it up."Excellent advice. I've got a 5500 motherboard I've been hoping to find a 6500 case to put it into (for over 5 years now, at least). But the popularity of this case and the sky high prices eBay sellers have been asking for one have put me off. That, plus the more time passes the less I'm inclined to regularly search for it. I'm now adding a 6360 to my old Mac shopping list, too (he says with renewed enthusiasm)
|
mac-cellar
|
128 MB Posts: 176 Gotta love System 7
Reply #13 on: August 08, 2025, 21:11
|
I used a PM 4400 as my daily driver about 25 years ago. It was used and very inexpensive, so what I saved initially went gradually into numerous upgrades over the next year or two. It served well. I think most of what would be been considered limitations in its day are far less important now. The cache card is something to check though. Given that G3 upgrades used this slot, you might find a pleasant surprise:) LowEndMac meant well when they defined their list of "Road Apples" way back when, but these distinctions were products of a different time and far different usage circumstances. If you can find one that let's you have some System 7 fun, especially if the price is far less than machines that were powerhouses in their day, go for it.
|
68kmac
|
32 MB Posts: 51 System 7 Newcomer!
Reply #14 on: August 09, 2025, 09:57
|
*put on a hyptnotic look* You all buy now a mac LC !
|
|
Pages: [1] 2
|
| |||||||||||||||
|
© 2021 System7Today.com. |
