Unix on System 7 era Macs - experiences / recommendations?



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Author	Unix on System 7 era Macs - experiences / recommendations? (Read 242330 times)
Bolkonskij Administrator 1024 MB Posts: 2023	on: June 26, 2025, 08:37 Hello fans of the beige days, I was wondering about options regarding Unix on System 7 era Macs? Particularly my IIci. I know about Apple's A/UX but assume it's pretty outdated by now. Still, might be fun to give it a go. Does it run on a partition, e.g. could I dual-boot System 7 with it? I saw that NetBSD ("MacBSD") has a 68k build around. Any experiences with that? What's the performance / capabilities? Again, I'd be particularly interested in experiences on a 68030 Mac, but I'll gladly take anything

ShinobiKenobi 256 MB Posts: 362 System 7 fan	Reply #1 on: June 26, 2025, 10:01 That would be so awesome. I really wish I had a Mac that could run A/UX. But still being able to run UNIX on a 68k Mac would be cool too, no matter what distribution it is. I had no idea there was a type of UNIX made specifically for 68k Macs. That's really cool.

wove 1024 MB Posts: 1363	Reply #2 on: June 26, 2025, 12:54 Sean, the fellow behind Frog Find has a video on YouTube about A/UX on a Quadra that might be worth a watch. <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Phk3qVUPqw> Being YouTube that is for modern browser. He seems like a nice guy and might be amenable to putting that video on Cornica. I gave A/UX a try on an SE/30 way back and to be honest I never could figure out what to do with it or any solid reason to use it. As far as I know it will run System7 software much like Panther runs OS9 software. I do not recall anything about the specifics of the install process. I am sure I just gave the whole machine over to A/UX. It does have the X11 windowing system as part of the install.

cballero 1024 MB Posts: 1176 System 7, today and forever	Reply #3 on: June 26, 2025, 15:39 Bolkonskij, if you or anyone here wants to invite Adespoton over here for a chat regarding A/UX, he's a master at it I think since he's always advocating for it when he's giving tips to amigos there, including our resident 68040 pal I know he's like in a million other chats, but even if it's just for a one-off where he can be one of S7T resident experts on the subject matter, that'd be great!

lauland 512 MB Posts: 674 Symtes 7 Mewconer!	Reply #4 on: June 26, 2025, 17:49 I've got a/ux on a quadra 800 and it runs very well. Quite a nice little system. Very different but a similar blending of unix and the mac world as MacOS X. If there hadn't been licensing issues with AT&T and we could've had a powerpc version, macos x wouldn't have happened. Would that be better or worse? Hard to say. ---- Otherwise, I run debian Linux on an m68k ('040) performa and it works quite well, if anyone's interested, I could help them get it going on an older mac. I want to run linux on my '030 powerbooks, but there isn't ADB support. I've tried netbsd on the same powerbooks, but just fitting on the tiny little hard drives has been a challenge I haven't quite gotten past. I've done some work on using it on an external drive, but got bored and didn't finish. I'd like to try netbsd on the same '040 performa, and it should work well there too, but just never have gotten around to it. There's some really good posts on 68kmla and elsewhere on people doing such things.

lauland 512 MB Posts: 674 Symtes 7 Mewconer!	Reply #5 on: June 26, 2025, 17:52 I've been playing around with Power MachTen recently again, and have always loved it in the past. So I gave the m68k version a try, and it runs even in Basilisk! (Though only on 7.x, couldn't get it to work on MacOS 8 even with the supplied patch). MachTen is a very good way to get unix without giving up your mac system or having to repartition your drive, etc.

cballero 1024 MB Posts: 1176 System 7, today and forever	Reply #6 on: June 26, 2025, 22:55 Lol, that's right, I forgot we already did have a A/UX user! Thanks for sharing those cool experiences with it, Lauland!

lauland 512 MB Posts: 674 Symtes 7 Mewconer!	Reply #7 on: June 27, 2025, 16:49 Yeah, I'd be more than happy to share my experience, and help any of you guys if you want to try any kind of unixy things. So, if you have a machine that can run A/UX, definitely give it a try. Unfortunately, the ones that can are limited. The only downside to A/UX is that it is a very old version of Unix, so is missing a lot of modern niceties. Many of them have been ported, but you'll need to get them yourself. Out of the box, it is pretty bare. There are a couple updated disk images with lots of add ons out there I've been meaning to try. You can definitely dual boot A/UX, but its native drive uses a unix format, so you will need to partition things. Its System 7 support is very good, so you might not need to, better than Classic in MacOS X in many ways. Linux support is much wider, other than some m68k powerbooks. Debian is the one to start with for m68k. Once you have that working, you might find newer distros, etc. I have a lot of experience with it on m68k. For even ancient machines like 6100/7100's there is mklinux, which I've also used a lot. For 603 and 604 based powerpc there are a LOT of choices. Netbsd (and possibly m68k freebsd and openbsd) I don't have experience with, but have been wanting to play with. I've heard they are quite modern and kept very up to date, even on m68k, although you will need a lot of disk space (relatively to what is on ancient machines). MachTen, both power and m68k, run as a Mac app on top of your current system, so you won't need to repartition your drives or anything. If you just want to get your toes wet in Unix, they are a no brainer to try. The PowerPC version requires a license, but that is easy to get around. ---- And, good point, unless you are programming, or specifically WANT unix, there is no reason to do any of the above. A/UX technically is more stable than just System 7, but the overhead of having to set it up, and deal with the unix side of things, means, if you don't need unix, no need to use it.
Last Edit: June 27, 2025, 16:54 by lauland
wove 1024 MB Posts: 1363	Reply #8 on: June 27, 2025, 17:17 Minux was available for Mac. (Actually I think it still is?) My recollection of it is that it ran as an application on System 6/7. It was mainly a teaching application and not something for actual productivity. It was good for learning OS design, and learning Unix layout and commands.

eelco 32 MB Posts: 41 System 7 Newcomer!	Reply #9 on: September 03, 2025, 11:55 I have, in the past, managed to get the latest version of A/Ux (3.x) running on my IIfx, with an uprated 500 MB SCSI disk and 32 MB of RAM. It ran but sluggish at best. And as far as '030 Macs go, out of the box none are faster than the mighty IIfx. I have tried (very recently actually) to get the same version running on a Quadra 700 (which is a BIG leap in performance for A/UX), using a BlueSCSI. I get to the desktop but it starts complaining some files and/or packages are not found. I should really dedicate some time to this, A/UX really intrigues me.

cballero 1024 MB Posts: 1176 System 7, today and forever	Reply #10 on: September 03, 2025, 12:33 After the powerhouse that is now LINUX, it’s not surprising to be curious of its beginnings, especially since UNIX for the Mac’s been around for decades, almost since its inception in the System 6 and 7 era through A/UX For me, it’s always been a focus on usability versus feasibility: what can I use something for? I love it when the old dog can be taught to have a few more tricks up its sleeve, which I is why I love it when a new, obscure program is unearthed, or better yet, when something’s made to work outside of its scope! But I think most of us are wired that way anything in the realm of UNIX, as I remember it, has some sort of connection with internet-related functionality, right? What hasn’t been explored in this area, or was it so nascent back then that it just wouldn’t be worth the trouble to explore? Dad used to tell me that “a shiny object will keep you entertained for a few minutes; but something you can really use, well, that could keep you hooked for a lifetime!”

wove 1024 MB Posts: 1363	Reply #11 on: September 03, 2025, 14:56 A/UX was for Mac, Amiga had its own variant of UNIX called AMIX. That page is an interesting read. Much of its take on why you would want it run AMIX is fairly relevant to “why would you want to run A/UX."

cballero 1024 MB Posts: 1176 System 7, today and forever	Reply #12 on: September 03, 2025, 15:49 Thanks for that link, wove! I love how honest they present it: Quote from: AMIX page Why would you want to install AMIX? There's really only one reason. Well, two, if you count being an idiot like us. That reason is simple curiosity. And that’s exactly what I pictured with A/UX as well — the cool, if humble, beginnings of something extraordinary — a port of the ever-evolving and powerful UNIX, leading to both LINUX and Darwin, the base for OS X

lauland 512 MB Posts: 674 Symtes 7 Mewconer!	Reply #13 on: September 03, 2025, 20:44 I probably already previously reported this, but will repeat anyway. Have debian m68k linux on a Performa 630, and mklinux on a 6100 and a 6360. (I believe I've tried mklinux on a pb 5300). I have an ancient version of ubuntu on the 6360 also, but have had some trouble with it. Have more recent versions of ubuntu and debian on g3 and g4 class machines. Have tried NetBSD on a few m68k powerbooks, but they don't support the ADB controller, and I didn't have enough disk space. Have A/UX 3 on a quadra 800. I'd be willing to help anyone who'd want to seriously try any of those, at least to get started... Or maybe to explain why you wouldn't want to bother?!? Trivia: MkLinux is an odd beast. It is a port of the Mach kernel, with Linux "on top". This kernel is closely related, but by no means identical to the version of Mach that was used by NeXT and early versions of MacOS X Server (aka Rhapsody). It looks like Apple used a lot of what they learned in MkLinux in the kernel that debuted in the first non-Server MacOS X (aka DP1).

lauland 512 MB Posts: 674 Symtes 7 Mewconer!	Reply #14 on: September 10, 2025, 17:29 So, I've got a couple ZuluSCSI boards, which, I can't quite tell if they are just similar or actual clones of BlueSCSI, so they emulate SCSI hard drives, letting you use disk images on an SD card. I've been meaning to set one up in my quadra 800, and maybe try a few different "Unixes" on it. I can get m68k linux on it pretty easily, even copy most of the install from my performa 630 (which uses an IDE hard drive so can't directly use Zulu on it). But would also really like to try m68k NetBSD. I think it'd run it well, as opposed to the tiny powerbooks I've tried it on previously. There is a very nice A/UX disk image out there that someone set up, that includes a LOT of nice extras, so built binaries for a lot of more modern Unix things that A/UX doesn't come with. The normal install is very sparse are far as utilities and programming languages, and doesn't have any GNU style things that are expected these days (and that I can barely live without). In theory I can take the image and put it on an SD card, and put that in the Zulu and just be good to go, so that's been on my TODO list for quite a while. If I get the Zulu working for A/UX, Linux, and NetBSD, I could upload my images to MG or elsewhere, and others could download them and use with their own Zulu, BlueSCSI, or even copy onto an actual hard disk. That would save anyone interested in m68k unix a LOT of time and painful setup...which, believe me, can be quite complicated. I could do the same for PowerPC, using the Zulu in my 6100 or 7600. Like I said, I already have MkLinux on it. I have yet to look into powerpc NetBSD (and maybe openbsd and freebsd, as there seem to have been powerpc versions of those too), it's always been on my TODO list, but way far down compared to countless other things that have taken more of my attention.
Last Edit: September 10, 2025, 17:30 by lauland
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