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| Author | A few weird things (Read 51692 times) | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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ShinobiKenobi
256 MB  Posts: 362 System 7 fan 
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on: January 22, 2025, 02:27
This is stuff I've put up with for a long time, meaning to deal with them eventually, but finally got fed up with them, and rather than making several topics, I decided to put them all into one topic. [Edit: all this applies to my Power Macintosh 7200/75 with the 400 MHz G3 card and the Tempo Trio installed.] 1. On Mac OS 8.6, it doesn't read floppies, and freezes Finder whenever I put a floppy in. If I wait long enough, it'll eventually snap out of it and say the disk is unreadable and give me the initialize option. However, System 7 can use floppies just fine, unless they're bad. Has anyone else ran into this? 2. Another thing is after installing Stuffit Deluxe 5.5, every time I start up System 7.6.1, I get a message saying Finder integration won't work because "Text Encoding Converter" isn't installed, but the extension is in the Extensions folder. O.o 3. Another thing is on System 7, I get an error type 3 every time I try to stuff something with Dropstuff or SI Deluxe 5.5. It's the number for "Illegal instruction error", but it works fine on Mac OS 8. I've been restarting into both systems several times a day to work around these problems, which I know is crazy lol. If any Mac masters here can tell me what I am doing wrong, I would greatly appreciate it! Thank you |
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Last Edit: January 22, 2025, 02:34 by ShinobiKenobi
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wove
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1024 MB Posts: 1363
Reply #1 on: January 22, 2025, 03:32
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Just an unhelpful oddity here, but the Macintosh 7200 is an exceptionally well liked stereo receiver. And for a mere $8000 it can be purchased here. (new browser of course:( Sorry for the non-sequitur. It always seemed odd that after Apple had trouble with their name because of Apple music, they went ahead and named a line of computers after a company know for their excellent music equipment. I play all the Apple records on my Macintosh HiFi.
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ShinobiKenobi
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256 MB Posts: 362 System 7 fan
Reply #2 on: January 22, 2025, 03:37
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Yeah, that is weird. At first I perceived your response to be: I'm having trouble with it because its circuits are getting jammed from radio signals.
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wove
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1024 MB Posts: 1363
Reply #3 on: January 22, 2025, 03:43
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You know though that with a PM7200, it is probably not impossible that it is choking on some random radio signal. Sorry to sound so snarky, but I know a couple people who also had a PM7200 that always seemed to have troubles with them. I did some clean up and repair on a PM7200 DOS variant and although I did not really use it, it seemed like a nice machine.
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ShinobiKenobi
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256 MB Posts: 362 System 7 fan
Reply #4 on: January 22, 2025, 04:19
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It's a nice go-between-computer because it has a 400 MHz G3, a Tempo Trio so that I can use hard drives over 700 MB, and works great with TCP/IP. I use it to get stuff from the internet for my LC III, and other Apple/Mac computers that only have floppy drives. Also, that's interesting about everyone you know who has a PM7200 having problems with theirs. I tend to have weird problems with it now and then, but it's the best computer I have that runs System 7.
Last Edit: January 22, 2025, 04:38 by ShinobiKenobi
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Bolkonskij
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Administrator 1024 MB  Posts: 2023
Reply #5 on: January 22, 2025, 14:48
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Before trying anything else - do the problems persist if you deactivate your G3 card and run it "bare-bones" ?
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lauland
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512 MB Posts: 674 Symtes 7 Mewconer!
Reply #6 on: January 22, 2025, 15:40
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Problems with Stuffit may just be Stuffit, and may be related to the wrong version of the "Stuffit Engine" Extension in one System Folder, but the correct one in the other... But that floppy problem threw me for a loop. I've never seen that kind of thing, unless system stability in general is a problem, so I'm thinking all the problems will probably end up related. Likely either your MacOS 8.x System Folder is the problem, or it's hardware...I think 8.x puts your computer more through its paces, so a hardware issue would be more apparent in it. Absolutely try doing a clean install (an option in the installer) of MacOS 8.x, with no customization or extra Control Panels or Extensions at all. If the problem persists then, you'd KNOW it's hardware. I have a 7600 with a Sonnet G3, and the manual says you must remove the L2 cache simm on the motherboard. This is because the G3 card has its own caches, and they can conflict. I just looked up and the 7200 also has a cache simm. I know my 7600 did similar bizarre things until I removed mine. After that, I'd suspect ram. Run a memory tester and see what that says. The reason System 7.x may be more stable is it just never uses enough memory to hit the bad ones. ---- One note, I have both Sonnet G3 and G4 cards. My system is rock solid with the G3 (built Classilla on it which was about as serious a stress test as you can get), but I have seen scattered problems similar to yours with the G4. Never tracked them down, and the G3's cpu is faster than the G4, so I just put the G4 on the shelf, thinking maybe it got damaged at some point. Also, my "rock solid" system started hanging at boot time (just before the Finder shows) a couple weeks back. I figured I'd installed some conflicting Control Panel or Extension or it had gotten corrupt somehow, as, same thing, it still booted 7.6 fine. I didn't want to bother figuring it out, so did a clean install of MacOS 8 and the problem went away.
Last Edit: January 22, 2025, 16:19 by lauland
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lauland
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512 MB Posts: 674 Symtes 7 Mewconer!
Reply #7 on: January 22, 2025, 15:56
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I just noticed you were having a problem with Stuffit involving the "Text Encoder" in System 7.x, so that's unrelated to anything going on in MacOS 8.x... My guess is the version of Stuffit you have may not be compatible with System 7.x, and require 8+. Either that, or the Text Encoding Extension in your System 7.x folder is not the right version. I'm not sure if that would come with a clean install of System 7.x or not, but that's something to try also. Having more than one copy of MacOS and switching between them has its complications. If you install things in MacOS 8.x, they may be versions that won't run in 7.x, for example. You probably are already doing it, but be sure that, when you switch, only one of the System Folders has both the "Finder" and "System" file in the same folder together. You must separate them in the System Folder you aren't using to "de-bless" it. Either that or you might be using a "System Switcher" utility...
Last Edit: January 22, 2025, 16:24 by lauland
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ShinobiKenobi
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256 MB Posts: 362 System 7 fan
Reply #8 on: January 23, 2025, 02:51
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Bolkonskij I was able to use floppies normally after taking the Crescendo enabler out of the system folder. The Crescendo enablers available for Mac OS 8 are for 8 and 8.5. Could the 8.5 enabler be incompatible with the floppy driver on 8.6? lauland, I've always just used the Startup Disks control panel and set it to the one I want to boot from. I have the hard drive partitioned into 3 partitions. One for each system, and then a spare one. I just looked at the text encoding converter extension and here's the info: Text Encoding Converter Cyberdog 1.2.1 Version 1.0.3 I still get the type 3 error when I try to stuff something on System 7 with the extensions off. I want to clarify that Mac OS 8.6 is more stable and runs better than Mac OS 7.6.1 on my 7200. The only problem I have is that when extensions are enabled, it can't use floppies. I double-checked the cache, and had forgotten that I put it back in when I was trying something a few months ago and forgot to take it back out. However, it seems like after taking the cache out, it's working exactly the same, with no noticeable difference than when it was in. I really don't want to reinstall the systems, since it's a lot of work reinstalling all the software I use, remaking all the aliases, etc. It's useable the way it is now, it's just annoying. I remember reading years ago that some people have had to rename their extensions so that they can change the order in which they load, but I can't find anything about that now. I always thought messing with the blessing stuff only mattered if you had multiple systems on the same partition. Using the Startup disks cp has always worked for me. Is it not reliable?
Last Edit: January 23, 2025, 03:05 by ShinobiKenobi
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wove
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1024 MB Posts: 1363
Reply #9 on: January 23, 2025, 03:04
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The latest version of Text Encoding is 1.5 and it can be obtained in the Update section of the System7Today home page. Here is the latest version of Text Encoding.
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ShinobiKenobi
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256 MB Posts: 362 System 7 fan
Reply #10 on: January 23, 2025, 04:08
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Thanks wove. I was going to say **** it and just wipe everything and start over from scratch (after doing so several times over the last few years). I will stick with 8.5 this time. The only reason I updated to 8.6 was to use the 8.6 version of iTunes, which won't work anyway. Don't remember why and don't care anymore. So I was going to back up all my files onto my firewire hard drive, and of course the PM7200 can't detect it. It's "supposed" to work, along with many other things, but just doesn't. Firewire stuff is active, but I'm just done with fighting all the problems. I've been trying to get a perfect 7200 with System 7 and Mac OS 8, but I just don't believe that's possible anymore. I'm glad many of you have rock-solid systems. It must be nice. I'll explore my luck and see what else can go wrong with it. Thanks to everyone for their support.
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lauland
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512 MB Posts: 674 Symtes 7 Mewconer!
Reply #11 on: January 23, 2025, 04:43
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Multiple partitions for mutliple OS's is the SMART way to do it. I am doing crazy things and actually blessing and de-blessing different folders, which works, only because I have a single partition. I have 3 System Folders, 7.6, 8.1, and 9.1, which is also crazy, and didn't want to split the disk 3 ways. (I've been lucky things are as stable as they are!) If Text Encoding came with CyberDog, you might try just re-installing it? (FYI It might come with a newer one than what comes with 7.6?). The 8.5 crescendo enabler very well might not be compatible with 8.6...if there isn't one specifically for 8.6, you might try the one for 9.0? (Worse that can happen is it'd crash or won't work). I believe the enabler (and/or Extension) turn on the G3/G4's caches, which the ROM firmware doesn't know about. My 7600 will boot without either, but run slowly. Maybe the enabler does something for the Finder, hence affects floppies? You can absolutely do a "clean install" (option in the installer) without having to reinstall EVERYTHING, esp won't have to redo aliases. It just creates new System Folder (preserving old)...and Apple Extras, Simple Text, and likely CyberDog, etc, but that is optional. Some apps may come with Extensions, Fonts, etc, you'd want to copy over. I recently did a clean install, and didn't have to reinstall anything, but YMMV. You can even copy the Preferences folder from the old System Folder to the new one to keep your settings, but sometimes THOSE are the real problem. Try temporarily renaming it to "Preferences.old", it'll create a new one, and see if that helps, if it doesn't, throw the new one away and rename back. I'd definitely try re-installing Stuffit. One of the few PROBLEMS with having multiple partitions is 7.6 might be finding the 8.6 version of Stuffit (on the other parititon) and trying to use it. You might try deleting any Stuffit you have on your 8.6 partition, and just using the same one for both OS's.
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ShinobiKenobi
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256 MB Posts: 362 System 7 fan
Reply #12 on: January 23, 2025, 07:20
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I'm not able to rename the preferences folder in either 7 or 8.
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ovalking
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128 MB Posts: 199
Reply #13 on: January 23, 2025, 11:13
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>I'm not able to rename the preferences folder in either 7 or 8. And it's a good thing. Some of those files will be in use, and it would be chaos if they were suddenly inaccessible. You can rename it in a non-active system folder, but I don't know why you'd want to do this. I don't think it is good practice to copy over a whole folder of prefs, because some of those will be looking for specific drives that may no longer exist. But by all means remove or replace individual prefs files for troubleshooting purposes. Any missing files will be recreated automatically when needed. If it doesn't solve the problem, you can put the old one back if needed. You might also want to copy prefs files around to so save setting up e.g. bookmarks and toolbar prefs files. I do this frequently.
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Bolkonskij
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Administrator 1024 MB Posts: 2023
Reply #14 on: January 23, 2025, 11:40
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Reading a lot of frustration from your posts and I can relate, believe me! Keep at it. Eventually you'll make it all work. Quote from: ShinobiKenobi Bolkonskij I was able to use floppies normally after taking the Crescendo enabler out of the system folder. I've had stranger things happen. I've lately spoke to somebody who couldn't use any version of Quicktime anymore. Turned out it was the '040 accelerator he had installed into his 68k Mac. Bottom line: Always try the bare-bones boot first to see if it's a genuine problem or connected to the Crescendo. Lauland is right about partitions and StuffIt. That might be causing the problem for you. From my experience and many others, System 7.6.1 should be the fast and rock-solid solution for your 7200. I too advise to re-install the System. As ovalking posted, copy-over preferences one-by-one as you want them. Good way to test if something is causing your Mac to run unstable.
Last Edit: January 23, 2025, 11:43 by Bolkonskij
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