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| Author | A few weird things (Read 51694 times) | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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cballero
1024 MB  Posts: 1179 System 7, today and forever 
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Reply #15 on: January 24, 2025, 01:12
Chiming in with the rest, 7.6.1 will be the fastest by a margin (once it’s tuned and working right) 8.1 is fine too, but won’t offer as many options as 8.5.1. 8.6 should in theory be close to 8.5.1 and offer you a few extra software options and updates (like the iTunes that unfortunately didn’t work for you) 9.1 would be the best nine, although others may try to go higher for the thrill of it, lol. I too have played with a system blesser program, and they’re great to boot up into various OSes. On that machine, I’d install exactly what Leland has on his Mac: 7.6.1 for simple word processing, iCab on retro sites, and other easy tables including playing older games, then 8.5.1 for programs that require a newer OS and the same for 9.1, although in my experience, almost everything should run fine on 8.5.1 or 8.6 that runs on 9.1, like Word 2001 (think of SheepShaver compatible apps) except Carbon apps that need 9.1 and CarbonLib to run. |
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Last Edit: January 24, 2025, 01:15 by cballero
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ShinobiKenobi
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256 MB Posts: 362 System 7 fan
Reply #16 on: January 24, 2025, 03:42
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Thanks everyone for their continued support. I decided to format the hard drive. There were too many variables and I felt like it was just a better solution to start from scratch.
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ShinobiKenobi
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256 MB Posts: 362 System 7 fan
Reply #17 on: January 24, 2025, 10:00
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I have 7.6.1 installed now. I had to try several times because during a couple of the installations, it would freeze. I got it installed by installing the least amount of software first, just the base system, then went back and incrementally added the rest of what I wanted. I'm kind of paranoid now, about what to do next. As of this post, I have Stuffit Deluxe 5.5 installed, and am using other programs off of the second physical hard drive, where I have my files and warez. I can run NN 4.04 and some utilities I commonly use from that. Now I'll try the tweaks recommended on this site. Btw, I can use SI Deluxe just fine now. It still freezes for a minute or so when it gets to the extensions screen during startup with the Crescendo installed. Out of curiosity, I tried renaming the crescendo enabler 8 file to crescendo enabler 7, wondering if it would work better, but it didn't work at all, so I put the real 7 one back. I'm going to hold off on installing Mac OS 8. I feel weird not having that as an option, but I can always install it whenever. When I do, though, I'll install 8.5.1 Maybe there will be less trouble that way. Again, thanks for all your support.
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lauland
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512 MB Posts: 674 Symtes 7 Mewconer!
Reply #18 on: January 24, 2025, 15:28
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If you were booted off the the 7.6.1 CD while installing (and thus NONE of your previous software config were involved), and STILL saw freezing, I'd very strongly suspect a hardware problem, it would have to be. Make sure you are booted off the disk, and not re-installing while booted from a previous System Folder of any kind. Basically, your only logical step is to eliminate any hardware that might be the issue. Take the accelerator out, ANY cards you might have, unplug the network (not that I suspect that, but just to be safe), etc etc. Nothing but the absolute stock hardware. Boot off the CD, and do a clean install. If you still see freezes THEN, you'd have to hope it was either the hard drive, or the ram, otherwise, the 7200 itself might have be having problems. I know it's slow without the accelerator, but you should test it thoroughly without it. Accelerators are basically magic, and I keep thinking it is probably the problem, especially in a 7200 since it doesn't go in the a cpu slot, so is even more magic than usual. I'd do that before trying anything else, if you can't get a clean install of 7.6.1, on the stock hardware stable, anything else you might do is just adding a lot of variables that cloud things and can hide what is really going on. I hate to hear the trouble you've been having and keep hoping we can figure this out!
Last Edit: January 24, 2025, 15:30 by lauland
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cballero
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1024 MB Posts: 1179 System 7, today and forever
Reply #19 on: January 24, 2025, 18:31
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When real Macs are newer, things such as RAM glitches, zapping the PRAM, rebuilding the desktop, testing and defragging the hard disk drive, ensuring all RAM and add-on cards are seated well, and when nothing works, doing a full reformat and OS reinstall are all par for the course. But new variables can unfortunately show up when your gear gets older; from dusting off the innards from built-up dust, or worse: things on boards start to discombobulate (although I truly hope that's not the case!) but unplugging all extra things (if any) and running with minimal system extensions is a great way to isolate a fluke due to a system or hardware conflict, as Lauland recommended. I've never played with any third-party accelerator cards, but sometimes you get lucky and find that others have documented their own troubleshooting and identified incompatible setup quirks, which unsuspectingly could easily throw another big monkey wrench in the gears  On using a blessing app versus the CP, I think I've read that the CP may write to the ROM? I know it's fuzzy, but the consensus was that there's a limit to how many times you can do this before experiencing some kind of burnout limit? I'm adding question marks because I'm sure someone who actually knows more about this can give the full 411 on that (Lauland, did you mention on this recently?) so I have it in my head to use an app versus the CP, lol
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ShinobiKenobi
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256 MB Posts: 362 System 7 fan
Reply #20 on: January 25, 2025, 01:02
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After installing Open Transport 1.3, Netscape Navigator 4.04 stopped working, and gave an error 2 or 3. Reinstalling OT 1.1.1 didn't fix it. If I can't use the G3 card, I really have no use for the 7200 then. It's just too slow by itself to do anything useful. This time I won't try any of the tweaks. I'll just run straight 7.6.1. It ran fine until I started tweaking things with the recommended update apps from this site. Gonna wipe the partition and start from scratch again. Thanks for the info, I'll use a holy app instead from now on to change startup disks lol. I never thought of the ROM being the problem, but usually they are good for thousands of writes, and there's no way I've even come close to changing the startup disk that many times. But better to be safe, I guess. I can't take out the Tempo Trio. Without that, I won't be able to use any hard drive, since all my SCSI drives (except the 160 in the LC III that I bought recently) are bad. I've been meaning to buy some 128 MB ram cards for it. All I have on the motherboard itself are four 8 MB cards. Edit: Now that the "why" has been explained (thanks cballero), it makes sense to me to use a blessing app. Which one do you guys use?
Last Edit: January 25, 2025, 02:24 by ShinobiKenobi
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lauland
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512 MB Posts: 674 Symtes 7 Mewconer!
Reply #21 on: January 25, 2025, 02:25
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Ah...you were doing the tweaks on the 7200! In the other thread I thought they were on the IIci, so I was misunderstanding the situation! That makes things clearer... Yes, tweaks are cool, but only one at a time until you're sure they're stable. I think some of them are only for 7.0/7.1, and not needed for 7.6.1, and/or just for 8.0/8.1 and not 8.6, etc etc. It's little things like, if your OS came with OT 1.2, then OT 1.3 may help, but you might find 1.2 more stable on 7.6 maybe (or the other way around?) You have to be careful with tweaks, and really should only do them if needed. A system closer to standard will always be more stable, and the minute you tweak, you're going non-standard. (Unless you are fixing a particular problem in the first place). I'd recommend against using an app to bless the System Folders, and keep on using multiple partitions...a single partition means more work either by hand or on a holy "System Switcher"'s part. It does seem cleaner just having one partition, but it's easier just using the Startup Disk CP. But anyway, YMMV. ("Do as I say, not as I do"...I don't even use an app, but "hide"/move aka divorce the Finder files from the System files by hand, but that, as I said, is a bit crazy, it works for me, but it is a goofy thing to do). Sorry to hear the 7200 is too slow without the G3. Understand. I've got a 6100/66 I never use for that reason. I do have a G3 card that was meant for a 7100/8100, but actually WORKS sticking straight up in the air with the case off! I really should sell that to a poor 7100/8100 owner...anybody want/need it? (I'll do trade, even just for "something cool/interesting", too). Also understand you can't go without the Trio, didn't realize it was controlling your only drive! What was said about "the ROM" is definitely NOT true for "old world" Macs, that is any "beige" machines, which is anything that shipped prior to the iMac. I think people may be mistaking the PRAM for a flash "ROM". PRAM doesn't run out (AFAIK), but its battery absolutely does (and not strictly necessary as long as you stay plugged into AC.) Be very careful before you buy any large ram dimms...the memory controllers in old machines may not be able to handle them, and many machines "max out" at a particular ceiling. I googled, and it sounds like a 7200 maxes out at 256m. That MIGHT be two 128m dimms, but more likely four 64m's. The particular kind of dimm may be important too, "edo" may or may not work. I'd google and see what other 7200/75 owners have done before making any purchases.
Last Edit: January 25, 2025, 02:46 by lauland
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ShinobiKenobi
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256 MB Posts: 362 System 7 fan
Reply #22 on: January 25, 2025, 05:25
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Ok, thanks for the clarification on the ROM. According to this site (modern browser needed) Apple Power Macintosh 7200/75 Specs it can use 128 MB per slot, and I read somewhere else (forget where ATM) that said since its max is 768 MB with the Crescendo. The only thing about that is the manual for the Crescendo says to use equal or more RAM on the Crescendo compared to the logic board. I ended up getting the number 2 error again on NN 4.04. After I deleted the Netscape files in the prefs folder, it works again. So it might just be messing up its own prefs.
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lauland
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512 MB Posts: 674 Symtes 7 Mewconer!
Reply #23 on: January 25, 2025, 05:46
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Crescendo: I finally googled the Sonnet G3 for 7200, and it is massively different than the card with the same name for the 7500/7600/8500. Did not know it had its own memory slots! The 256m max I read about is definitely just for motherboard ram. I'd still be very cautious putting such large amounts of ram in such an old machine. I'm guessing the ram on the Crescendo would be on a faster bus than on the motherboard, but that's just from knowledge of similar, but very different, accelerators in general. My guess is the best configuration would be some both on card and motherboard. If it were me I wouldn't think of pushing more than around 256m total anyway, which is PLENTY for classic apps, and for the sake of stability sanity. And definitely do what the manual says. Preferences files: What @ovalking said is very sound advice. I tend to play fast and loose with my Preferences files, so take what I've said about copying them with massive spoonful of salt. Also, want to point out my recent problems with 8.1 starting just up until the Finder I strongly suspect may have been due to corrupt Preferences files. When I recently did a "clean install" to fix this, I did NOT copy ANY Preference files over, as I didn't want to spend time figuring out exactly what where when was the real issue.
Last Edit: January 25, 2025, 05:47 by lauland
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