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| Author | Is it possible to completely disable Platinum on OS 8.0-8.1? (Read 107447 times) | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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MTT
256 MB  Posts: 394 SSW7 Oldtimer 
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Reply #30 on: June 03, 2024, 09:13
@lauland; The Beige G3 didn't ship with a Rage 128 card, either. I got mine from an ex B/W G3 (eBay purchase) an early PCI Mac version of the 128, and I am able to use it in the beige. Which incidentally has slower 33 MHz PCI slots than the 66 MHz PCI slot the 128 was in on B/W Mac towers. It still seems to work OK although some intensive 3D games might be an issue. Contextual Menus would still work fine I'm sure, but they (Contextual Menus and CM Plug-ins) are dependent on an intermediary to work, which happens to be the 8.0/8.1 Finder. The 8.1 Finder supplies the required drop-down menu holders to display relevant menu items. Here's a screen grab of the 8.1 and 7.6.1 Finder resource forks, which show some of the obvious differences. The only USB optical mouse I currently have for the beige is an old Microsoft 3 button wheel mouse. The drivers it uses are called "IntelliPoint". The earliest version of which I could find was version 2.0 - I have a copy of this, and have uploaded it to the MG if you want to take a look. The version 2.0 drivers are at DL #4 on that page (DL #3 as well but that's a larger hybrid image). The earliest IntelliPoint drivers for the Mac that I know of are version 1.1, and that version also required 8.5.1 and above. The Web Archive has info on version 1.1, but no copies were saved for downloading by the WA, that I could see. I'm all for seeing a Universal 8.1 - 7.6.1 hybrid install CD emerge. @cballero: I do agree. It is possible to make 8.1 look and behave much like System 7 just by using a System 7.6 Finder. With some Mac's (like my beige G3), a little more work is involved in the set up, but it's not terribly difficult. The biggest plus here I think is HFS+ without jumping through hoops. |
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Last Edit: June 03, 2024, 09:23 by MTT
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Jatoba
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256 MB Posts: 270 System 9 Newcomer!
Reply #31 on: June 03, 2024, 11:14
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So if the 8.1 Finder is hacked/patched not to try to invoke nor search for the Appearance Manager, then we get "System 7 with Contextual Menus (and without AM)"? If someone accomplishes this, and it works, then the same steps might be possible with the 8.5.1+ Finder... Then it would become a matter of stripping out the AM out of the System 8.5+ suitcase. This would deal with the USB drivers problem, while retaining the "System 7 goodness". Mac OS 9.2.2 being lightweight and looking like early System 7?  Mac OS X's "Classic Mode" being speedier and suddenly looking like System 7?
Last Edit: June 03, 2024, 11:19 by Jatoba
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cballero
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1024 MB Posts: 1176 System 7, today and forever
Reply #32 on: June 03, 2024, 20:36
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I wonder if Greg's Kaleidoscope Extension does a type of deactivation or circumvention when it replaces the platinum theme on Mac OS 8.0 and above, especially if the System 7 theme is not available at all in these new OSes. And if that's the case, then part of the solution might be found in Kaleidoscope's program and extension. Similarly with Mac OS 8.5 and up, the theme switcher may also has a part to play, since you can't use any theme if it does not exist natively inside the System files.
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MTT
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256 MB Posts: 394 SSW7 Oldtimer
Reply #33 on: June 07, 2024, 03:27
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Quote from: lauland: "I'm interested in maybe hacking a mouse driver to get everything working on such a mutant system...let me know which ones you've tried that say they required 8.5..."I managed to track down the rare v1.1 of the drivers, even these demand 8.5.1 as the earliest Mac OS they will work with. Since tested and confirmed not working in 8.1, with or without the 7.6 Finder. I've added them to the MG's IntelliPoint page, if curious. Well, I'm ending my testing 8.1 with Finder 7.6.1 in my Beige G3 for now, and have set the Finder back to it's (new) 8.1 configuration. If the G3 had been able to boot native into Mac OS 7x, I think I would be more inclined to explore this angle further... I just had the feeling that it didn't feel "natural" with the beige. And although it worked well enough, the clincher for me was ethernet support seemed to be an issue with the 7.6.1 Finder, but not with the 8.1 Finder. The issue being this G3 has a 3rd party 10/100 enet card on board, which uses Kingston drivers. With the 7.6.1 Finder, file transference was working at 10mbit speed, and there seemed no way around this. With the 8.1 Finder, enet speed is how it should be at 100mbit for this card.
Last Edit: June 07, 2024, 03:33 by MTT
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cballero
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1024 MB Posts: 1176 System 7, today and forever
Reply #34 on: June 11, 2024, 02:11
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Hmm, might that card work with the following Kingston Mac OS driver WB (WayBack) link, MTT? Kingston EtheRx PCI 10/100 Fast Ethernet Adapter Mac OS driver According to their support page (WB link) the card works with "Apple System 7" in their "Driver Support" section: Kingston KNE100TX Fast Ethernet Adapter
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MTT
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256 MB Posts: 394 SSW7 Oldtimer
Reply #35 on: June 12, 2024, 03:46
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@cballero: Thanks for the links. I see that there are several drivers still possible to download from the WA, but not the one for my card it seems, which apparently was missing from Kingston's own links, pre WA. Fortunately a copy was uploaded to the MG here (not by myself) and also has a nice photo of that card. Anyway, I do have the drivers for it, it's just an incompatibility issue between the 7.6.1 Finder and 8.1 OS, I think. But all is not lost from this endeavor. Until this thread opened, my entire familiarity with the Beige G3 had been with running Mac OS 8.6 to 9.1 and occasionally OS X 10.2x and 10.3x (xpostfacto). But never 8.1, which has been a first for me, and for now, I'm enjoying the experience of this 
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cballero
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1024 MB Posts: 1176 System 7, today and forever
Reply #36 on: June 13, 2024, 16:55
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Ah, so your E-Net card driver works with System 7 as advertised, then? Such low-level software becomes a real rare treat to come across for older systems, if it weren't for the MG and other sites keeping the original Mac OS alive, we'd be up the creek as far as vintage software just like this!! 
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MTT
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256 MB Posts: 394 SSW7 Oldtimer
Reply #37 on: June 14, 2024, 06:40
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Quote "so your E-Net card driver works with System 7 as advertised, then?"Actually, I cannot recall if I've ever used that card in any Mac other than the beige G3. I know that I've had it for a long time, but it's been much longer since I've owned a PCI Mac that could boot native into System 7.5x, and my memory to that end is not so good. So if the drivers work in System 7x, I couldn't say for sure. I do hope that one day I will once again get to have a PCI Mac that can boot natively into System 7 something, maybe I'll get to find out then I do have a project, a 6500 motherboard and CPU with a full set of RAM + cache and video card, waiting to go. All I need now, is to find a suitable case with a working PSU for it. Waiting, waiting...
Last Edit: June 14, 2024, 07:12 by MTT
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MTT
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256 MB Posts: 394 SSW7 Oldtimer
Reply #38 on: October 11, 2025, 07:34
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Quote from: Knezzen: "A different approach which works as well is to replace the 7.6.1 "System" file with the one from Mac OS 8.1 on a regular Mac OS 7.6.1 install. You gain a lot of compatibility with Mac OS 8 but still get the look and feel and everything else from 7.6.1. Tested and working on my 8600"@knezzen: I'm now convinced that this is THE best approach to take. Especially WRT Basilisk II installs. Of the two methods I've tried, The Mac OS 8.1 install with 7.6.1 Finder appeared to work fine for me, until I started using AppleScript and I found that AppleScript was mostly broken and 3rd party AppleScript applications just failed outright. The Mac 7.6.1 install with an 8.1 System file. AppleScript is 100% OK, but (so far) HFS+ drives aren't mounting. Disk Tools can see and check them, but they don't mount on the desktop. These are the two most recognizable anomalies I'm striking. But when it comes to weighing up what I can do without here, the lack of HFS+ I can live with. But broken AppleScript, no. That's the deal breaker. So, thanks for that tip Knezzen. It works the best for me.
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