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| Author | Anyone wanna try out Usenet on their System 7 Mac? (Read 123046 times) | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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ShinobiKenobi
256 MB  Posts: 362 System 7 fan 
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Reply #45 on: June 11, 2025, 21:51
I was too late to the Usenet party  I didn't get my first actual home computer until the summer of 2000. I used Google groups briefly in the 2000s, but that's as close as I got, so unfortunately I don't have any nostalgic feelings for Usenet, but I'm still interested in giving it a try.Sadly though, I had to move the monitor I was using for my Power Macintosh 7200 and LC III, so right now the only Mac I can use is my Quicksilver G4, which is running 9.2.2. |
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MTT
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256 MB Posts: 394 SSW7 Oldtimer
Reply #46 on: June 12, 2025, 03:14
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@ShinobiKenobi: Hi, if you want to try the real usenet, you can still do this easily on your QuickSilver. You would find that MT-NewsWatcher downloaded from the Mac Garden, is a very good newsreader. Versions 3.1 and 3.4 suit Mac OS 9 well. Version 3.4 is the final classic version. If you get your older Macs back on line, you can install earlier versions for those. The original MT-NewsWatcher site is still alive. It has full documentation (https link) and FAQs which are useful for finding out more info about usenet and MT-NW. Those older 3.1/3.4 versions can be downloaded from there, as well.
Last Edit: June 12, 2025, 03:17 by MTT
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Bolkonskij
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Administrator 1024 MB  Posts: 2023
Reply #47 on: June 13, 2025, 09:04
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Did get a brief time of sitting down at the IIci yesterday and eventually got to play a bit with System 6. I've downloaded Newswatcher 2.0 just out of interest - using the excellent Gopher to Macintosh Garden gateway btw! I tried to launch it, but alas, as @MTT noted, it will not start up (but gracefully exiting after telling me that it wants System 7.0 or later) I've downladed Real News Watcher (the Hypercard Usenet client). It starts up complaining about the missing Palatino font. Oh well, who cares. It when wanted me to convert the stack only after which I was able to enter connection details. It did not connect for me though, complaining about a MacTCP error (I was online, confirmed working FTP'ing with Fetch). So I assume something else must be amiss. I did not get to investigate further as time was up. I plan on doing that this weekend! Hard to believe Newswatcher 1.x isn't on the Mac Garden yet. I'll look into it the next time I get to boot the IIci. Thanks for the info on its whereabouts, MTT!
Last Edit: June 13, 2025, 10:29 by Bolkonskij
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mrdav
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8 MB Posts: 15 System 7 Newcomer!
Reply #48 on: June 14, 2025, 07:07
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I just added NewsWatcher 1.x to the NewsWatcher page in MG
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cballero
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1024 MB Posts: 1178 System 7, today and forever
Reply #49 on: June 15, 2025, 00:51
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Thanks for that sweet assist, MrDav! 
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MTT
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256 MB Posts: 394 SSW7 Oldtimer
Reply #50 on: June 15, 2025, 08:27
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I was excited to see those John Norstad 1.x delta versions of NewsWatcher arrive at the MG, @mrdav. I've tried the latest version (1.3d8) out in SSW 7.1.1, it runs, connects to a news server and attempts to download the full groups list. Unfortunately it runs out of memory before the full list can DL. - It's the full list or nothing with these newsreaders, too. Heck, I'd settle for a partial list here. I tried several goes, each time increasing memory to the application. I bumped the allocation up 68MBs before giving up. It tries to DL the list but always runs out of memory on me... Wonder if there are any more Norstad 1x versions out there? I hadn't known of any and had assumed that his version 2.0 was the first gold release. Anyway 1.3d8 runs in SSW 6 too, so it might be worth looking at on 6. I didn't get around to try the other delta, 1.3d6, as yet. Super thanks for having these despite their not being able to DL that list for me.
Last Edit: June 15, 2025, 08:30 by MTT
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fogWraith
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32 MB Posts: 59
Reply #51 on: June 15, 2025, 17:32
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I don't know, I've been working on my own news server (unfederated) for use with stuff and things, it's part of macdomain / macgarden / vespernet. one, two, three, four Usenet on ye olden Mac works great
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cballero
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1024 MB Posts: 1178 System 7, today and forever
Reply #52 on: June 15, 2025, 17:51
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Ye giveth a very cool new service, FW!
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Bolkonskij
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Administrator 1024 MB Posts: 2023
Reply #53 on: June 17, 2025, 18:19
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Finally got around to downloading 1.36d and give it a try. Posting from the IIci btw :-) the news aren't good though. I am getting the same "error" - it stalls when trying to fetch the group list. Even if you wait several minutes, it doesn't seem to update. A pity. Looks like the System 6 world is still looking for a working Usenet client :-)
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wove
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1024 MB Posts: 1363
Reply #54 on: June 17, 2025, 20:59
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I do not think I have ever accessed Usenet with a GUI client. On a CLI client like Alpine you connect to the Usenet server. You can download a list of groups, but more commonly you just query the server for a group you are interested in seeing. So for instance you might search for "macOS". Once you have found a group you would like to read, you would enter the full group name, which brings up some group metadata. Depending on how regular you visit you just ask it to bring down some group of messages (last 20, from June 10 to June 17 etc). This would be putting the load on the server while needing fewer resources on the client. The current Alpine cli uses about 26mb of ram at idle. That itself points to, such a thing never working on a System 6 machine. I do not understand why the System 6. client needs to download a list of groups instead of having you search the server for a group, or just connect directly to a group assuming you already know the full name. Would making modifications to items in the Usenet clients resource fork allow you to have it start up and just take you to a specific group and download some smaller fixed amount of messages? Is it possible to manually create a list of groups for the application to use that matches the groups you actually want to see?
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MTT
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256 MB Posts: 394 SSW7 Oldtimer
Reply #55 on: June 18, 2025, 03:51
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That's an excellent suggestion, @wove, but no, it demands to download the full groups list before it will allow reading/posting. I did try by using a version 2 NewsWatcher to download the full list, then saved a group file consisting of one group, then tried using that with the earlier version of NW and it still tries to download the full group afresh. Bah. It doesn't share the same full groups list as saved out by NewsWatcher 2, or its saved groups file. And unless it can download a full list and then save a group file, I don't know what form that will be in. @Bolkonskij; I now think that the NewsWatcher deltas and betas are a lost cause for both 6 and 7. I've been rummaging around all of the usual places and have dug up a few more early (Norstad) NewsWatcher's. The earliest being v1.3d2 which I didn't get around to trying, and I came across a version 2.0 delta, and even that will not run in System 6... I tried this v2.0 delta and then a version 2.0 beta on SSW7.1.1 and they both suffer that "out of memory" issue with downloading the full groups list... though the latter v2.0 beta managed to save a partial list before exiting. It wasn't until I tried a gold v2.1.2 (I skipped 2.0+) when I was able to get a full groups list to download. I then came across another early newsreader called "Nuntius", it too suffered "out of memory" issues and died. I'm guessing here, that these early NNTP client apps for Macintosh use the Mac OSs TextEdit engine (not to be confused with "TextEdit" the Mac's editor app) to handle the text routines, and hits a brick wall with its 32kb file size limitation. I don't know, except that the full groups list came in at 1.1MB, and they can't even manage that.
Last Edit: June 18, 2025, 04:46 by MTT
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wove
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1024 MB Posts: 1363
Reply #56 on: June 18, 2025, 05:34
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If a developer would piece together a "distro" that would say run on a Raspberry Pi that could be accessed via a terminal from OS 6/7 many of the limited access problems could be overcome. Raspbian is a small light weight Linux designed by the Pi people to run on low power low resource, yet modern hardware. Then System6/7 could log on via terminal, access applications like Alpine, Lynx etc from the Old Macs. It would actually be period accurate, since early Mac needing to use those services would most likely have been doing it in exactly that manner. If the retro community has a blind spot it is looking for solutions/software with the modern mindset, rather than exploring the methods in use when the retro hardware was still new.
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Bolkonskij
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Administrator 1024 MB Posts: 2023
Reply #57 on: June 18, 2025, 08:21
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That's a sound advice - going through a "mainframe" to balance the load. I wonder if this is a service we at S7T could offer? @knezzen, you're reading? Alternatively, another thought - anybody tried acessing Usenet through Telnet? Sure wouldn't be pretty. But would it be possible or are NCSA Telnet etc. too outdated to handle it? Has anybody tried?
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Knezzen
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Administrator 512 MB Posts: 608 Village idiot
Reply #58 on: June 18, 2025, 10:31
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Most (all nowadays?) *NIX distros and operating systems can be accessed from System 7 using SSHeven. Even Telnet would work, if you install a telnet server on your *NIX machine. That's the way I access *some* stuff here at home. I have a Debian machine running as a SSL/TLS bridge using STunnel, a TLS (HTTPS) proxy for Classilla using Crypto Ancienne and Carl as well as WebOne. I use the SSH session though SSHeven to check mail, do some web dev stuff and some other rather abstract things. I think a specific distro for System 7 would be a bit redundant (there are so many already), but a tutorial in our help center explaining how to get a telnet server up and running, as well as the other services like the one I made for Carl would be fun and helpful for many.
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lauland
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512 MB Posts: 674 Symtes 7 Mewconer!
Reply #59 on: June 18, 2025, 19:45
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Just a note if you do set up a *nix box, even a MacOS X one, to use for your System 7 machine, ALWAYS use ssh before telnet. Black hats always scan for open telnet ports and the traffic isn't encrypted, so it is a very well known way to break into systems. I ssh between my various systems all the time, and run a mini g4 server headless.
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