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| Author | Which 7.6.1 Image for PM8600? (Read 26398 times) | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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7Heaven
8 MB  Posts: 9 System 7 Newcomer! 
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on: February 27, 2023, 20:42
I’m trying to resurrect a Power Mac 8600/250 and have a question on which 7.6.1 image would be best to use. I don’t have any OS 7 installation media. I did a fresh install of 9.1, which EveryMac lists as the latest OS it can run. I’d like to set up a dual boot with 7.6.1. I already have the disk partitioned (HFS for 7.6.1, HFS+ for 9.1) and have some good hints: keep the operating systems within the first 8Gb of the disk, and don’t update the HD drivers or perform a clean install when installing the 2nd OS. These are the 7.6.1 images I’ve found: Macintosh Garden has two images listed here: https://macintoshgarden.org/apps/macintosh-mac-os-76 PM8600CD_761.ZIP (115.90 MB) MacOS761CD.ZIP (83.70 MB) Macintosh Repository has three images: Mac-OS-v7-6-1-Universal--M68K-and-PowerPC---CD-.toast (244.59 MiB / 256.47 MB)/ Toast image https://www.macintoshrepository.org/13755-mac-os-v7-6-1-universal-m68k-and-powerpc-cd- 691-1623-A, Power Macintosh 9600 and 8600 series. SSW v7.6.1. Disc v1.0 (CD).toast (200.59 MiB / 210.33 MB) / Toast image https://www.macintoshrepository.org/20378-mac-os-7-6-1-disc-1-0-8600-9600-691-1623-a-cd- 691-1613-A, Mac OS v7.6.1 (CD).toast (244.14 MiB / 256 MB) / Toast image https://www.macintoshrepository.org/20379-mac-os-7-6-1-cd- I thought it would be good to check with folks here before I start burning CDs and adding to my coaster collection. Thanks for any advice you can give me! |
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Knezzen
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Administrator 512 MB  Posts: 608 Village idiot
Reply #1 on: February 27, 2023, 21:23
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I'm just using the retail version of 7.6.1 with my 8600. Haven't really tried anything else, since it works great. It's the "MacOS761CD.ZIP" from Macintosh Garden.
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Bolkonskij
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Administrator 1024 MB Posts: 2023
Reply #2 on: February 28, 2023, 15:10
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I second that. Try the MacOS761CD.ZIP from the Macintosh Garden. I tried the 8600 specific disc from the Garden at one point, but it wouldn't work on my 8600 / 200. My estimate was that it's the disc that either came with the 250 Mhz or 300 Mhz version. P.S. Don't download from the download flatrate business masquerading as Macintosh Repository ;-)
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7Heaven
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8 MB Posts: 9 System 7 Newcomer!
Reply #3 on: February 28, 2023, 15:23
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Thanks! I'll give the MacOS761CD.ZIP from Macintosh Garden a try. I appreciate your help!
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Knezzen
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Administrator 512 MB Posts: 608 Village idiot
Reply #4 on: February 28, 2023, 19:07
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And please do get back to us with how it worked out for you 
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7Heaven
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8 MB Posts: 9 System 7 Newcomer!
Reply #5 on: March 02, 2023, 22:51
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I wish I had better news to report. Here's what happened: 1. I thought I would be able to boot from the MacOS761CD.ZIP (after burning in Toast), but no go. So, I booted into 9.1 and started the 7.6.1 install from there. 2. The 7.6.1 seemed to go ok, but at one point a popup window stated a clean install would be performed by default. I had selected the 7.6.1 partition for installation, so I thought (hoped?) it wouldn't mess with the 9.1 partition. 3. The install finished, and still in 9.1, I selected 7.6.1 as the startup disk and restarted. 4. Now I see this message when the computer starts: This startup disk will not work on this Macintosh model. Use the latest installer to update this disk for this model. I've tried holding the option key at startup, but this message keeps appearing. I'm open to all suggestions!
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wove
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1024 MB Posts: 1363
Reply #6 on: March 03, 2023, 01:58
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I should have chimed in earlier. Your first post indicated you had an 8600/250. That was a machV model. The machV 8600 came in a 250&300 MHz model and the machV 9600 came in a 300 and 350 Mhz model. The processor is on a daughter card and all the various speed can be installed in any of the machV models. While the processor was called the 604ev MachV, it is actually just a very early version of the G3. They were the last release of PPC series before the jump to G3. That is the model of the 8600 that I had. It requires its own installer CD which contains System 7.6.1. But it is a version unique to the Mach V architecture. You can not install 7.6 and upgrade, and I am also pretty sure the retail 7.6.1 installer from Apple also will not boot it. If you can not locate the original installer for the 8600/9600 MachV machine, I think you will have to settle on OS 8.
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Bolkonskij
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Administrator 1024 MB Posts: 2023
Reply #7 on: March 03, 2023, 08:34
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That's an interesting info, wove! So maybe @7Heaven your 8600/250 indeed needs that special CD which might be the PM8600CD_761.ZIP from the Mac Garden? At least I'd download and look if the readme says anything about what model it is for. As I wrote, it wouldn't work on my 8600/200 and with wove's posting in mind, it makes sense now.
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wove
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1024 MB Posts: 1363
Reply #8 on: March 03, 2023, 14:16
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That must have been and interesting time at Apple. Jobs had came on board. Apple was frustrated that PPC chips had gotten so power hungry that they were no longer useable for laptops, which Apple really wanted. Apple in anticipation of a new OS was dead set on getting all developer tools in house and provided to users. Motorola was getting greedy as could be, something they had a long history of being. The last of the 8600/9600 models were built on the Kansas architecture. If you pull the heat sinks you will find that the processor was fabbed by IBM instead of Motorola. IBM was at the time using the 604ev chip in their RS6000 line of computers. The 604ev was a first move to control energy consumption. Motorola was at the time obsessed with their own "Alticvec" processor extensions, which of course added to the already high power needs of the 604. Since the Mach V machines were so closely related to the eventual G3s I often wondered it the 7.6.1 installer for those machines, would not provide a pathway to create 7.6.1 installers for the G3 machines that required OS 8. But that is well beyond any abilities that I ever had. Interestingly the Mach V machines could boot BeOS, however BeOS only saw the processors at half their rated speeds, and interestingly too while you could use accelerator cards in the Machine, The processor upgrade cards would only be recognized at half their rated speeds by Mac OS. Which I understood to mean that the Kansas architecture, must have their own specialized bridge chips between the processor and buss. I was able to get Tiger to run on my 8600, but I got a great offer to buy the machine and I sold it. While it had all the AV ports, the software for really using them effectively was just never appeared. I did install an ATI capture card, and the machine was used to convert VHS to a digital format. It was overall one very nice machine, although one with lots of peculiarities, that more often than not turned into stumbling blocks.
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7Heaven
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8 MB Posts: 9 System 7 Newcomer!
Reply #9 on: March 03, 2023, 18:00
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Thanks for the history lesson! I think what keeps me interested in old Macs is learning about what was going on at Apple and the entire industry at the time the machine was released. I will give the PM8600CD_7.6.1 a try. Thanks so much for the guidance.
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7Heaven
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8 MB Posts: 9 System 7 Newcomer!
Reply #10 on: March 04, 2023, 00:06
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I was able to boot into 7.6.1 with the PM8600CD_761.ZIP (115.90 MB) from Mac Garden. At the Select Destination Disk portion of the install process, I could not select the 7.6.1 partition I had created in 9.1 The Select Destination Disk menu was greyed out with the message “no valid disks are a available.” Prior to the Select Destination Disk portion of the install process, I had skipped over the Update Drivers process. I didn’t think that would be a good thing to do, given that the OS 9 drivers are already in place. Is it a case where I cannot select a destination disk until I update the drivers? Thanks for helping me though this!
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Bolkonskij
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Administrator 1024 MB Posts: 2023
Reply #11 on: March 04, 2023, 11:03
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Could it be that the partition is HFS+ formatted and not HFS? Hence it reports "no valid disks are a available". Can you format the partition with the System 7 installer and then try again?
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cballero
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1024 MB Posts: 1179 System 7, today and forever
Reply #12 on: March 04, 2023, 23:05
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Here is my small takeaway from this eye-opening discussion: G3 Connection - the version of the Mac OS 7.6.1 used for this MachV 8600 could be the 'missing link' version of the OS to try to use on other early G3 Mac models. I wonder if the Finder and System file versions might even be hacked to become swappable with the Mac OS 8.0 Finder (although 8.0 would not come with HFS+ either), so this could be followed up with this project: Hacked HFS+ support - some Mac peeps found some Mac OS 8.1 floppy tools that actually support HFS+ in this project: https://github.com/elliotnunn/HFSPlusBackport (needs modern browser) This was first brought up here at S7T by zChris last year in this discussion (thanks Chris!!  ):http://system7today.com/forums/index.php?topic=3367.0 With some gtbl hacks, you can update the OS as far back as Mac OS 7.5.5 to have HFS+ support! Anything that can allow any G3 Macs besides this MachV version of the PowerMac 8600 to run Mac OS 7.6.1 would be genius. Even 68040 might be lured to try this OS in his jazzed-up Basilisk II rig!  Speed is another nicety about running Mac OS 7.6.1 vs 8.1 (although I love all of the GUI-enhancements and just miss a few third-party Finder tools that are not compatible with Mac OS 8 like Popup Folder)
Last Edit: March 04, 2023, 23:07 by cballero
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7Heaven
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8 MB Posts: 9 System 7 Newcomer!
Reply #13 on: March 07, 2023, 15:28
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<<Could it be that the partition is HFS+ formatted and not HFS? Hence it reports "no valid disks are a available".>> When partitioning the drive using the OS9 Drive Setup, I made sure the System 7 partition was formatted HFS. <<Can you format the partition with the System 7 installer and then try again?>> This sounds like the best way to go. There's a long thread at Mac Garden about a similar situation (https://macintoshgarden.org/forum/os-91-and-761-possible-the-same-machine). I need to study it more carefully, but it seems the key was to install 7 first and do the drive partitioning within System 7. It will be a few days until I have a chance to work on this again, but that's my next step. Thanks for your help!
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Bolkonskij
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Administrator 1024 MB Posts: 2023
Reply #14 on: March 09, 2023, 11:26
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Yes, I'd try the "First 7, then 9" route. I hope you don't have any valuable data on OS9 yet or you might need to make a backup first. Unfortunately, I have no personal experience to share as all my 8600 has ever been running is Mac OS 7.6.1 :-)
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