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Author Article: There Are Several I’s in Individuality (Read 27210 times)
Bolkonskij
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on: July 13, 2022, 14:52

I recently came across this article and it addresses an issue I was thinking about multiple times in the past few years, and that is losing the ability to learn from others "unconsciously" through lack of social interaction with specialists. This might sound odd at first, but read the thing and it hopefully gets more clear.

Here's the full thing, written by Ellyn Ritterskamp back some 15 years ago:

Quote
There Are Several I’s in “Individuality”

I got to thinking about which Web sites I visit regularly, and about what functions I perform on the computer that used to be done by phone or (gasp!) snail mail. I realized I save a lot of time by being able to do these tasks myself, rather than having to talk someone else through them. I have the reassurance of knowing I have done exactly what I wanted, and that I got it done on my schedule.

I am not so sure this is A Good Thing. I want to admire the way we are so efficient. I want to marvel at the speed of stock trades, and retrieving information about them. I do marvel at all that. I remember how much trouble it was to get someone else to handle that stuff for me. I love that I am in complete control.

But a little corner of me wonders if I wouldn’t be better off getting advice from somebody on that stuff. But then I swing back to the position of believing we are better off teaching ourselves how to handle our own money, and not relying on a broker to make suggestions.

We are better off being able to make complex travel arrangements for ourselves, rather than paying someone else to do it. I just booked a hotel room for a quick trip, and the entire booking process took under a minute. I swear. The travel site already has my personal information. I told it what I wanted and when, and it came back with a perfect hotel and a map. Another element I love about this is that I booked that room at 2:15 AM.
 
Before we had all these travel sites, I would have had to call during the daytime, and get put on hold with all the other callers. Self-sufficiency definitely has its good side. I will return to the possible bad side of self-sufficiency, though, because it is the way I think. I almost can’t help but examine a thing from multiple angles, and this angle makes me wonder if we wouldn’t be better off with a few more exchanges with other people.

Maybe I have made it too easy to handle travel, stock trades, and work insurance choices online. I even have a Web site to log my exercise times. I have not properly “balanced” my checkbook in months, preferring to log the transactions as they appear on the online statement, and just trust the bank. I rarely go shopping in person anymore; why fight the crowds when I can get exactly what I want online?

Maybe we give up something important about social interaction by living this way. On the other hand, I suppose we could say that less time spent on the phone with brokers and travel agents and salespeople means there’s more time to spend with our families and friends.

Yeah. I like this explanation better. It is the same reasoning that said the Industrial Revolution meant we would not have to spend every waking hour raising enough food to subsist. Now we could mechanize some of the work, and leave a little more time for leisure, and study.

Sometime in the 1970s, I think, we entered the service industry in the United States. This means there are even fewer labor hours spent producing things, and more hours spent helping each other get normal stuff accomplished. In theory, we have more time than we used to, to spend with each other. Or with our cats. Or whatever. We just have to recognize those gifts, and take advantage of them.

Onward.

I feel she could have elaborated a bit more on the "losing social interaction" but I nevertheless like the article. Like her, I've always been a proponent of the new, efficient ways that I would be proud to do things alone - only to realize at times that it would have been better being able to talk to someone beforehand who knew what he/she was talking about.

I also came to understand that lack of social interaction furthers the issue of "bubble existence" as we tend to miss out on contact with other social classes / "millieus" than our own.

What's your thought about it?
Last Edit: July 13, 2022, 16:22 by Bolkonskij
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Reply #1 on: July 13, 2022, 19:20

Good subject to wake up a forum :p

I don’t know… I feel this idea that we have less and less social interaction is false.
It is inevitable that we have more social interactions now just for the fact that from 1970 to now , world population went from 3.7 billions to 7.9 billions. So especially if one live in a city, where population increased the most… its inevitable that one sees more peoples than in the 1970s.
The way to interact changed a lot too. With lot of pressure added.

Was looking at pictures of Paris in the 1960's the other day, it is striking how clearly fewer people are in the streets.
And I suppose this goes the same for any big cities.

I think the way some groups of people tend to less socialize , or cut ties with others (young Japanese, can’t remember how they are called there, but it happens more and more in other countries too) is a way to escape that inevitable increased social interaction, that due to increase of people became more and more complex and difficult to manage. So they stay in their own bubble.

As for learning things, I love our times (for many other things I don’t). Learning things have never been so easy (I mean, for the things I can understand :p )
Watching a tutorial on Youtube is still kind of a social interaction. not real time sure.

Anyways, dunno if I'm on topic... just my 2€ cents.
Last Edit: July 13, 2022, 19:34 by galgot
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Reply #2 on: July 15, 2022, 13:53

I think our dearest Bolkonskij is just day dreaming, because he lives in a country where "individuallity" is very much frowned upon. ;)

There isn't even a German word for "Maverick" and doing things "your own way" - rather than listening to the collective - is not considered a virtue here.

I happen to be a staunch autodidact myself and never liked to listen to authority more than absolutely neccessary. And I can vouch for the problems that has caused me throughout my early years in this place.

Its one of the reasons I am sticking with my vintage setup - but I am careful not to mention that in the "wrong" places, for I had people already accusing me of "endangering the public" because I went online with a non-standard computer configuration.

Unfortunately even the Linux community tends to become more and more "mainstreamed" and many online forums have gotten used to a "wtf do you want to do that? Just leave things as they are!!" attitude if you ask about non-standard config options (-> "sudo" orthodoxy).

PS: What you call "my bubble" I call my oppinion. :D
Last Edit: July 15, 2022, 14:16 by 68040
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Reply #3 on: July 16, 2022, 00:46

Well for me anyway, Macs have always been big about freedom of expression and individuality; I mean, if everyone's homogeneous, all coming off of the same 'cookie-cutter' assembly line, then where's the fun in that? ;)

Now the fact we all love old Macs may make us Mavericks, and I'm proud of that fact, especially when we prefer to unplug from the rest of the world and choose to do things our own way.. I mean, I think that's where the meaning of the Apple Macintosh being 'The computer for the rest of us' really hits home! :D

But more on the subject itself, anything that unites us in a common cause, even our retro-community of Mac users, is a social platform of sorts. Of course, the Internet is what has helped things like this website feasible and almost effortless! Now the efforts to collaborate and amass the technical resources that we do are noble and show a real giving spirit of camaraderie, which is my favorite part of it all, almost as much as savoring all of the cool Mac software, and if lucky, hardware toys we get to play with on a day-to-day in emulation or on real Macs.

And to those who would say 'why would you want to do that' I'd simply respond, 'Because I can and want to!' and that's that! :)
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Reply #4 on: July 21, 2022, 13:46

I've watched this :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=oadgHhdgRkI
It goes far of topic and it's a long video (the whole thing is fascinating tho), but check at about 26:00. Our brain started shrinking about 20000 years ago, because of appearance of more advanced social structures. Social structure brings more secure environment, thus less need for our evolution to "create" bigger brains, with more processing power, to cope with less secure environment.
Last Edit: July 21, 2022, 13:56 by galgot
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Reply #5 on: August 19, 2022, 22:18

This is a fascinating read, and something I've never really considered before. As someone who has had some degree of self-sufficiency for some time (yet also being a codependent mess), and aged into adulthood two years ago and has been slowly learning to navigate that, I definitely see where the article is coming from. This could be a side effect of my age and the time in which I am growing into adulthood, although I don't know how old the author of the article is (or was when they wrote it).

I sort of see it like asking for help on a forum instead of solely using Google in many ways: I could go directly to Google, and oftentimes I do, but also asking on a forum/IRC channel/Discord server/et cetera, especially if you demonstrate a willingness to learn and a good attitude, allows for the opportunity to connect with people who have similar interests and for a more open exchange of ideas in a sense. You get to exchange stories with people of a variety of experience levels and backgrounds, and I think that's really special. In a word, it's not just the end result that matters, but also the journey that it takes to get there and, while being able to have everything at your fingertips is nice, sometimes it's nice to stop and smell the roses.

I'll have to let this percolate a bit more, because it's something that I haven't ever really actively thought about. It's definitely an interesting thought and I look forward to seeing where it takes me. :-)
Bolkonskij
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Reply #6 on: August 20, 2022, 08:22

Quote
It is inevitable that we have more social interactions now just for the fact that from 1970 to now , world population went from 3.7 billions to 7.9 billions. So especially if one live in a city, where population increased the most… its inevitable that one sees more peoples than in the 1970s.
The way to interact changed a lot too. With lot of pressure added.

I think what we're seeing today is a lot more people living in urban centers, yet less and less interaction. People today seem more than ever to live in a city, but next to eachother. That's the natural state for a Swede to live :-D but probably not so in the rest of the world. It definitely wasn't in the past.

The point I was trying to make is that I feel we cripple ourselves by resorting on the Google type of things solely and thus lose as a person. Don't get me wrong, I love(d) the WWW. After all, we wouldn't be chatting here if it weren't. :-)

But I also see that we don't meet as many different people from different background with different experiences. The human is a social creature, he wants to socialize*. (* excluding Swedes :D ).

By socializing we learn of others and ourselves, we learn new things that we didn't want to learn but that help to let us grow as a person. Interaction is more than just simple transaction, it involves small-talk, not-so-small-talk and more. It brings up new thoughts we didn't have before.

I feel that's something that is getting lost, we tend to just spend time with the people that are like us, have about our experience / views and while being connected to billions in the world 24/7, many feel more lonely than ever.
Last Edit: August 20, 2022, 08:26 by Bolkonskij
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Reply #7 on: August 20, 2022, 18:54

Yes! That's exactly what I was trying to get at I think. You said it much better than I could, however. :D
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Reply #8 on: August 20, 2022, 19:31

The individual is selfish, makes mistakes and can not survive on its own. The collective on the other hand is altruistic, corrects itself and lives eternal.

Now that's not my train of thought but this is being taught nowadays in the media, the schools and every broadcast the mainstream produces.

Today you are asked more than ever to be a team player, be "solidaric" (with Lord knows whom) and empathy (even the coerced kind) is viewed as the ultimate tool to solve all problems our societies are facing.

You are allowed to be an individual for as long as you do it in the exact same way everybody else does it. There is a catalog of acceptable views (which changes ever more rapidly) and one of forbidden attitudes that will get you excluded from the circle of trust forthwith.

Even world renowned authors such as Stephen King and J.K. Rowling found out the hard way that you better keep your mind of certain hot button topics. You got to be a team player - meaning a player in "their" team - if you want to find acceptance these days.

I am still part of the work force and have learned to keep my individuality in the office to an absolute minimum. If no one asks about it, I keep my opinion to myself and if they do ask I try to keep my answers short and my voice low.

I follow the(ir) rules of speech, try to straighten out and fly right and keep my mouth shut for as long as possible.

No politics, no religion, no talk about women of any kind. And I most certainly don't engage in prolonged flame wars in some Internet forum - be it open or not. Always be mindful that your individuality can get you into real trouble now, if its not mainstreamed.
Last Edit: August 20, 2022, 19:41 by 68040
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