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| Author | G4 Testing and AltVec Project (Read 35068 times) | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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dpaanlka
1024 MB  Posts: 1646 
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on: July 14, 2006, 02:08
I just won a 400mhz Sonnet G4 on eBay for $45 + $10 shipping for a totaly of $55. This is very exciting. I can't wait to find out if AltiVec can actually work in the 8600. If AltiVec does, in fact, work, the following would be affected: Photoshop 5.5 QuickTime 5 Premiere 5.1c Anything QuickTime related... Huzza! |
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dpaanlka
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1024 MB Posts: 1646
Reply #1 on: July 21, 2006, 02:53
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Well, the G4 came in today, and it works. Using the application AltiVec Fractal Demo which runs nicely under System 7, the program will create Mandelbrot Fractals using AltiVec. You can also tell it to do it without AltiVec, to see what kind of speed up you are getting. That utility says it detects AltiVec, and the display of the fractal thing is much faster with AltiVec than without...
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dpaanlka
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1024 MB Posts: 1646
Reply #2 on: July 21, 2006, 23:31
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Well continuing on today... It seems that Photoshop 5.5's AltiVec Core extension has no effect installed or not installed, therefore leading me to believe that Photoshop 5.5 is not seeing AltiVec, even the the AltiVec Fractal Demo program does see it. Any ideas on what might be going on here?
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dpaanlka
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1024 MB Posts: 1646
Reply #3 on: July 22, 2006, 00:10
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But G4TimeDemo does see AltiVec.  ?
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RacerX
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32 MB Posts: 36
Reply #4 on: July 22, 2006, 05:31
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Quote from: "dpaanlka" Any ideas on what might be going on here? Well, if I was to take a guess I would say that it was written in Carbon. This update was released in 2000. Back in the spring of 1998 (just before the release of Photoshop 5.5) Adobe created a Carbon version of Photoshop 5.0 that ran natively on a special version of Rhapsody with an early version of Carbon. Developers at that time were being encouraged to start converting there apps to Carbon so that they could be ready for Mac OS X. By the release of the first G4 systems, the Carbon transition was nearly two years old... almost anyone modifying an app to take advantage of Altivec would have most likely already been in the process of Carbonizing their applications. Mac OS 8.5 was the first version of the Mac OS to support Carbon, but with later releases 8.6 became the minimum requirement. The Altivec update was designed for 8.6 and 9.x... and wasn't just for Altivec but also for multiprocessor support. If the Multiprocessor Extension was also written in Carbon, it would most likely brake multiprocessor support in pre 8.5 systems. In System 7, Multiprocessor support was designed by DayStar (software which Apple would later buy and modify for Mac OS 8/9). The original Photoshop 5.5 multiprocessor support was written to work with the DayStar software on Apple 9500/9600 MP systems, DayStar MP systems and MP upgrades. If in the rewrite of the multiprocessor software Apple Carbonized it, Adobe and other developers would have had to modify their software that was designed to take advantage of multiprocessor systems... which is getting a little ways off the subject. What you should get from a G4 is the same thing that you get from a G3. A G3 is a 603e with special caching techniques... a G4 is a 604e with similar caching techniques (it was change slightly, the G3's techniques stopped it from working nicely in multiprocessor setups, but the changes to the G4's caching techniques fixed this issue). Even without the Altivec boost, you should still see an improvement in overall performance over the G3 (between 10-15% in integer and 25-35% in floating point)... similar to the type of improvement that you see in the 604e over the 603e.
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dpaanlka
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1024 MB Posts: 1646
Reply #5 on: July 22, 2006, 07:51
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RacerX, as usually your knowledge on this subject is impressive. Your explanation of why Adobe's AltiVec plug-ins do not work makes perfect sense. Would the same apply, then, to QuickTime 5 (which also appears to take no benefit from AltiVec). Quote from: "RacerX" Even without the Altivec boost, you should still see an improvement in overall performance over the G3 (between 10-15% in integer and 25-35% in floating point)... similar to the type of improvement that you see in the 604e over the 603e. Funny you mentioned that, as I had no idea, but me and bd1308 (who has a 400mhz G3 upgrade) were comparing results in MacBench 5 (which doesn't see AltiVec) and I couldn't explain why my scores were much better even though we had the same speed processors and no AltiVec. I'm glad, then, that I went for the G4. It is a shame that AltiVec is only recognized by AltiVec utilities, and not by apps that I would want to...
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dpaanlka
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1024 MB Posts: 1646
Reply #6 on: July 22, 2006, 09:01
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Sigh... in further updates.... I tracked down the XLR8 AltiVec extension for Photoshop 3.x and 4.x, and just like the Read Me says, it has no effect under Photoshop 5.x, which sadly, is the lowest version I have.
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RacerX
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32 MB Posts: 36
Reply #7 on: July 22, 2006, 09:50
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Quote from: "dpaanlka" Would the same apply, then, to QuickTime 5 (which also appears to take no benefit from AltiVec). Most likely... Apple was doing almost everything that they could in Carbon at the time (to prove to other developers that they believed in Carbon enough to use it themselves). So the odds are that anything that would have been Altivec accelerated in QuickTime would have been Carbon. Quote from: "dpaanlka" I'm glad, then, that I went for the G4. At this point in time, with prices as low as they are, a G4 (even without Altivec) is the best processor a System 7 computer could have. ... Though I'd still love to have seen what one of those Quad 604 DayStar systems would do running Photoshop 5.5 (even though they topped out at 150 MHz as I recall).
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SuperMac
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1 MB Posts: 1
Reply #8 on: August 26, 2006, 04:24
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Hey, I'm reading the back of my box for my Newer G4 upgrade, and it says, "Mac OS 7.6 or later for G4 hardware support compatibility Mac OS 8.6 or later for AltiVec application compatibility Mac OS 9 or later for full OS & application level AltiVec support (strongly recommended)" HTH, Charles
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douglas
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32 MB Posts: 44
Reply #9 on: August 27, 2006, 02:53
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Still I bet it would be great to see Photoshop 4.x running on a G4 under 7.6 with the altivec extension! Pretty cool!!!!
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Pwr_mac_beige_g3
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8 MB Posts: 15
Reply #10 on: August 29, 2006, 17:21
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I am glad to know the results of the ativec. I have a sonnet G4-450 that runs at 544mhz right out of the box. I am going top try it with photo delux and see what i get. I suspect that the lack of altivec wont really matter that much fir my purposes but it would nbe nice to have. Testing will have to wait til i get my 8500 back.
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sierraredd
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128 MB Posts: 212
Reply #11 on: August 30, 2006, 20:42
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What is Altivec and what does it do?
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Pwr_mac_beige_g3
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8 MB Posts: 15
Reply #12 on: August 30, 2006, 21:35
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In short- it is software that acts like a turbo-charger when performing certain commands. I.E- ripping mp3's and using photoshop and certain other applications. It works with floating point and single commands to do muliple tasks.
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dpaanlka
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1024 MB Posts: 1646
Reply #13 on: August 30, 2006, 22:21
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Quote from: "sierraredd" What is Altivec and what does it do? http://developer.apple.com/hardwaredrivers/ve/ Quote from: "Pwr_mac_beige_g3" In short- it is software Actually it is hardware. Software must be written to take advantage of it. The OS must also be aware that it exists in most cases, which 7.6.1 does not (QuickTime 5, for example, is certainly AltiVec-aware, but does not take advantage of it under 7.6.1). I'm sure RacerX will chime in with a much better explanation. As a side note, I'm noticing this G4 seems to introduce a lot of issues on my System. Some apps don't seem to want to run, and DV clips have weird artifacts going on that aren't present with G3s or regular 604s.
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RacerX
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32 MB Posts: 36
Reply #14 on: August 31, 2006, 03:35
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Quote from: "dpaanlka" I'm sure RacerX will chime in with a much better explanation. Actually the QuickTime 5 example you gave is excellent.
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