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| Author | Radeon question... (Read 50774 times) | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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douglas
32 MB  Posts: 44 
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on: May 31, 2006, 05:07
Hey! I was wondering, what version of Open GL does your system 7 ATI Radeon driver install? Thanks!! Douglas 
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dpaanlka
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1024 MB Posts: 1646
Reply #1 on: May 31, 2006, 05:36
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It doesn't. Where did you read that it does? Becuase if it says that it is an error I must fix. OpenGL isn't used with any Mac OS 7 compatible software.
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douglas
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32 MB Posts: 44
Reply #2 on: June 01, 2006, 02:23
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Ahhh..so what is the "ATI" equivalent of a 3d accelerated API? Is the Radeon accelerating "RAVE"? I always thought that the 3D API that the ATI cards used was Open GL, but maybe that is with a newer OS...sorry for the confusion, I'm not very smart about these things. I know that my Voodoo 5 accelerates all of the 3D API's, Glide, RAVE, and Open GL. If you are testing 3D games with the Radeon you must be accelerating something, or are you running all the games in "software" render mode? Thanks, sorry for the confusion on my part... Douglas
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douglas
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32 MB Posts: 44
Reply #3 on: June 01, 2006, 02:33
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the plot thickens... O.K., here is why I am confused...according to the link to the ATI Radeon 7000 page you put up on your site, ATI claims that the Radeon 7000 has "Full OpenGL® and QuickTime™ support". which is why since you now have a System 7.6 driver for the card that I though it was somehow accelerating Open GL in you 3D game tests. I realize that system 7.x doesn't "officially" support Open GL, but the Radeon 7000 isn't even supposed to work under System 7.6 anyways so I thought that someone had worked some "magic" with the drivers to get the 3D acceleration woking under system 7.6. So this leads me to the question...what 3D API is the Radeon accelerating in the 3D games that you are testing, or is the software being run in software mode only and just runs really fast with the card? Thanks for answering a dumb question!!!! Douglas
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dpaanlka
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1024 MB Posts: 1646
Reply #4 on: June 01, 2006, 03:06
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Well, my simple answer will solve all mysteries; it is accelerating RAVE. Any game or app that makes use of QuickDraw 3D in thousands or millions of colors will be accelerated.
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fogWraith
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32 MB Posts: 59
Reply #5 on: June 06, 2006, 04:55
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I was tinkering with the Radeon 7000 on my 8500/120, here's what I came up with ;P http://fogwrait.sdf-eu.org/images/gallery/s761_01.png http://fogwrait.sdf-eu.org/images/gallery/s761_02.png
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douglas
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32 MB Posts: 44
Reply #6 on: June 06, 2006, 07:35
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I love the Mario 64 frame rate!! Douglas
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dpaanlka
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1024 MB Posts: 1646
Reply #7 on: June 06, 2006, 11:23
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Appearance Manager defeats the purpose of Mac OS 7 having a faster GUI - I highly disrecommend using that or any software that "requires" that. Also, you can disable those very un-Mac like underlined menus that Speed Doubler 8 installs, if you so desire. Radeons don't accelerate 256 colors by the way. And regardless, an N64 emulator would of course not be accelerated since it has nothing to do with QuickDraw 3D RAVE.
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fogWraith
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32 MB Posts: 59
Reply #8 on: June 06, 2006, 13:48
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Appearance Manager is easy enough to remove when not using, oddly enough most emulators require AM, why is beyond me. Sixtyforce 0.6 uses Millions of colours when emulating, and I'm quite sure it would be faster if my hardware were that of a newer computer. It would also beat on me if OpenGL was not found & could not be set up. Still, I got the results that I wanted, as shown on the screenshots.
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dpaanlka
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1024 MB Posts: 1646
Reply #9 on: June 06, 2006, 17:56
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Quote from: "fogWraith" most emulators require AM Which is why none of them are on this site. I despise Appearance Manager. Quote from: "fogWraith" Sixtyforce 0.6 uses Millions of colours when emulating Oh, I just assumed from all the little dots on your background picture that it was in 256 color mode. Quote from: "fogWraith" It would also beat on me if OpenGL was not found & could not be set up. Huh???
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fogWraith
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32 MB Posts: 59
Reply #10 on: June 06, 2006, 18:13
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It's a matter of taste I guess, either you like it or you don't. =) And as for the final quote there, Sixtyforce would complain about not finding or not being able to set up OpenGL if it wasn't installed on the system, I took the liberty of installing 1.0 from Apple and it worked. I'm bad at explaining, especially in English. Sorry.
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dpaanlka
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1024 MB Posts: 1646
Reply #11 on: June 06, 2006, 18:20
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Quote from: "fogWraith" It's a matter of taste I guess, either you like it or you don't. It's actually beyond simply liking or disliking the Mac OS 8 apperance. Apperance Manager was never 100% optimized for Mac OS 7, and there are enough little bugs here and there that annoy me to the point where I can't use it. I'll try to explain the best I can, it can be rather confusing... In Mac OS 7.6.1, the GUI is largely 68k coded, and placing Apperance Manager on top of that doesn't change that, it simply "skins" it, so even on PowerPC Macs you're rendering Mac OS 8's more complex GUI through 68k emulation. Yuck. Mac OS 7's black and white GUI is faster through 68k emulation than Mac OS 8's native PowerPC platinum GUI, however Mac OS 8's platinum GUI running through 68k emulation on Mac OS 7 runs slower than all of them. Fastest - Mac OS 7's Built in GUI Average - Mac OS 8's Built in GUI Slow - Mac OS 7 running Mac OS 8's GUI Also, Apperance Manager on Mac OS 7 often leaves screen artifacts, doesn't redraw properly, and gosh darnit makes WindowShade crazy! I suppose if your personal taste overwhelms all of the above facts, then you're right it's a matter of personal taste. I should make this an article on why not to use Apperance Manager. ********** That is very intersting about OpenGL, I was originally going to include version 1.2.4 with my Radeon drivers but I couldn't find any software that used it. But at least that verify that OpenGL does in fact work. Now I just need to find softwar that will use it and not install Apperance Manager.
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fogWraith
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32 MB Posts: 59
Reply #12 on: June 06, 2006, 18:50
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That's quite interesting, even though I am switching between the regular System 7 interface and AM (just because those damned emulators require it). I believe I will utilize AM even less now. As for OpenGL, guess it will require a bit of hacking the installer or something, since anything above 1.0 will require OS8.x
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dpaanlka
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1024 MB Posts: 1646
Reply #13 on: June 06, 2006, 19:27
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Just for everyones enjoyment, did a simple Let 1K Windows Bloom test with and without Appearance Manager on Mac OS 7. This utility is a very crude way to get a rough idea of GUI performance by telling the OS to draw and redraw a standard window 1000 times, and then gives you the time to complete this in seconds... Without Apperance Manager: 61 Seconds With Appearance Manager: 80 Seconds That's a 31% decrease in GUI performance simply from installing Apperance Manager on my 133mhz PowerBook 1400c.
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fogWraith
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32 MB Posts: 59
Reply #14 on: June 06, 2006, 19:31
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Statistics usually never lie, disturbing facts. Quite educational, thanks 
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