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| Author | Trying to get LocalTalk Bridge working (Read 31522 times) | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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ShinobiKenobi
256 MB  Posts: 362 System 7 fan 
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on: February 22, 2025, 04:51
I installed it on my Power Macintosh 7200. It's connected to my LC III by PhoneNet. And it's connected to my network with ethernet. The PhoneNet adapter is plugged into the printer port like it's supposed to be, but LocalTalk Bridge complains about it when the computer boots to the desktop. Here's a picture. What am I doing wrong here? Also I forgot to mention I'm using 7.6.1. |
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Last Edit: February 22, 2025, 05:14 by ShinobiKenobi
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lauland
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512 MB Posts: 674 Symtes 7 Mewconer!
Reply #1 on: February 22, 2025, 05:27
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The most obvious thing I can think of is maybe a printer driver has grabbed the port? It would have to be an extension or control panel of some sort, since I can see the error is before the Finder loads. Have you tested doing appletalk over your printer port WITHOUT the bridge installed? I can't remember from our previous discussions if you had or not. First make sure you have just that working, ie with file sharing turned on, two macs joined via just localtalk can see each other. Make sure you have appletalk turned on in the chooser and the printer port selected in Network (if you aren't using OT) or AppleTalk (if you are). In my case I tested with my 7600 and a pb 180, and making sure the pb 180 could see the 7600. Once the bridge was working, the pb 180 was then able to see devices on the ethernet the 7600 was (also) plugged into. I had a little trouble getting it to work depending on the version of OT I believe. I don't think I needed to go down to 7.5.3, and think I am running it on 7.6.1. I can check later, but have two sleeping cats on me right now.
Last Edit: February 22, 2025, 05:31 by lauland
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ShinobiKenobi
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256 MB Posts: 362 System 7 fan
Reply #2 on: February 22, 2025, 09:32
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Yes, I can access shared folders on both computers just fine over AppleTalk. I have ensured that the printer port is selected in AppleTalk. I'll remove the extensions for all the printers, since I don't have one connected to it and see if that helps. Also, I totally understand. Enjoy that moment  Update: I moved all the printer extensions into the disabled folder, restarted, but I still got the same error, but the Finder loaded to the desktop. I think the reason it didn't get to the desktop before, was because before that, I turned the computer off and sometimes it complains for no reason when I turn it back on. I checked the Chooser and confirmed only AppleShare was shown. The LC III is off when I boot the Power Mac 7200. The Readme of LocalTalk Bridge says that no other computers can boot before the LocalTalk Bridge boots.
Last Edit: February 22, 2025, 11:01 by ShinobiKenobi
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ovalking
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128 MB Posts: 199
Reply #3 on: February 22, 2025, 15:56
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>Yes, I can access shared folders on both computers just fine over AppleTalk. I have ensured that the printer port is selected in AppleTalk. Not used it myself, but my interpretation of the readme was that Ethernet should be selected in AppleTalk CP. Your screenshot mentions Network CP, so it's not clear to me if you are using Open Transport or classic networking. Be sure you haven't got a mixture of both.
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lauland
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512 MB Posts: 674 Symtes 7 Mewconer!
Reply #4 on: February 22, 2025, 17:53
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Oh Derp! @ovalking is right! Sorry I gave totally wrong advice. Basically the 7200 should be set up as if it is ONLY using ethernet, both for AppleTalk and TCP/IP. The LocalTalk Bridge needs to be in complete charge of the printer port, so you do NOT select that port as you normally would in a LocalTalk only network. Sorry, if it wasn't for the cats, I would've jumped up and checked. So again, what I said about selecting the printer port in Network or AppleTalk control panels is WRONG. Try again with whichever you have (depending on OT or not) set to Ethernet. I'm going to go and check right now just to be super sure, and will post if I see anything else I missed.
Last Edit: February 22, 2025, 17:55 by lauland
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lauland
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512 MB Posts: 674 Symtes 7 Mewconer!
Reply #5 on: February 22, 2025, 18:11
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Confirmed. My pb 180 (7.5.0) can see the 7600 (7.6.0), along with my B&W g3 (8.6/ASIP 6) and mini (tiger server) in its chooser. It can only actually mount the 7600 since the pb's OS (or at least its AppleShare extension) is too old, but can see them, and try, so I know the bridge is working. I think if I upgraded that extension (to 3.8, I think?) it might be able to mount the ASIP server. Trivia: My 7600 doesn't have a pram battery, and was unplugged. So when I plugged it in, and booted, it came up with the same error you saw, as it had defaulted AppleTalk back to the printer port. I just changed the port in the AppleTalk control panel to Ethernet, rebooted, and then it worked. I wanted to make sure the boot order didn't matter, as that sounded fishy to me, so I purposely had powered on the pb 180 first. I didn't need to reboot the pb, or anything, after getting the 7600 up and working.
Last Edit: February 22, 2025, 18:28 by lauland
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ShinobiKenobi
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256 MB Posts: 362 System 7 fan
Reply #6 on: February 23, 2025, 05:09
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Awesome, thanks ovalking and lauland! Let me turn my chair around and try that. I have the LC III and 7200 directly behind me, so I have my gaming tower dual booted with Win 10 and Linux Mint and my Quicksilver in front of me on the table. Update: On my 7200, I set AppleTalk to Ethernet and restarted, and didn't get any errors booting up this time. I turned on my LC III, and sure enough, I can still access the 7200 through the PhoneNet using AppleTalk. But when I open up Netscape Navigator Gold 3.04 on the LC III, it says TCP/IP could not be opened because a MacIP Gateway could not be found. So I clicked OK. The error behind that one said Netscape was unable to create a network socket connection. I have Open Transport 1.3 installed on both computers. In the AppleTalk control panel on the LC III, the printer port is selected. Still on the LC III, in the TCP/IP control panel, the only option for "Connect via" is AppleTalk (MacIP). When I check my router's access control, it doesn't even see the LC III trying to access the network. It's just like it has zero network access beyond the 7200. I turned on the Quicksilver running 9.2.2, and it doesn't even find the 7200 in AppleShare. I tried manually connecting to the 7200's IP address, and that failed also. The Quicksilver's info: OT 2.7.9 AppleTalk 2.7.9 AT driver 61.0 AppleShare 3.9.2 7200: OT 1.3 AT 1.3 AT driver 60.3 AS 3.6.4 LC III: OT 1.3 AT 1.3 AT driver 60.3 AS B1-7.1 This seems like a daunting task, lol.
Last Edit: February 23, 2025, 06:43 by ShinobiKenobi
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lauland
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512 MB Posts: 674 Symtes 7 Mewconer!
Reply #7 on: February 23, 2025, 18:46
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Ok, I mentioned this in a different post, but it's key to remember that what you are trying, with Netscape, is TCP/IP and not AppleTalk. ie LocalTalk Bridge may or may not be routing TCP/IP packets, and is probably NOT a solution to do TCP/IP, but only AppleTalk out of the box. It works wonders with Chooser stuff. So, with that said, I've wondered the same thing, about using it as a bridge to the Internet for my ancient machines, which is a completely different thing, and may or may not be possible. So, MacTCP can do TCP/IP a couple different ways...as straight TCP/IP packets over Ethernet, if your machine has that interface, and that works well... But, back in the day, there were multiple ways to encapsulate TCP/IP packets inside AppleTalk ones, and thus transport them "hidden" over LocalTalk, ie "MacIP". You then need a gateway or maybe something like a GatorBox, that strips the TCP/IP data out of the AppleTalk, and would send them on to actual ethernet as pure TCP/IP. My thought is LocalTalk Bridge alone, doesn't do that. It has been literally decades since I've had to deal with this, but did use to run a very large network of LocalTalk machines for work at one point, and got them all accessing the Internet. We had Farallon LocalTalk hardware, similar to GatorBoxes, but they also acted a bit like ethernet switches (but for LocalTalk), so we had multiple linked star topologies (per building floor and/or department). This hardware had ethernet ports and connected to our separate ethernet network, bridging and routing between them, and doing all the magic necessary. ---- There is probably a way to do this in software, and I've looked a TINY bit into it, but didn't pursue it enough to be sure one way or the other. Now...I've been COMPLETELY wrong in things I've said before, so take everything above with several grains of salt! But, from my (very distant) past experience, I think this is possible, but requires another piece of the puzzle to do some magic at some point, and get the packets in the right format and going to the right place. I've never done it in software, but we should search MG a bit and might find what we need. Here's more info: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacIP https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LocalTalk-to-Ethernet_bridge (modern browser) I think the following sound promising, all of which I've heard of, but never used: macipgw (part of netatalk, could run on your Linux machine) Apple IP Gateway Internet Gateway from Vicomsoft IPNetRouter from Sustainable Softworks
Last Edit: February 23, 2025, 18:50 by lauland
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ShinobiKenobi
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256 MB Posts: 362 System 7 fan
Reply #8 on: February 24, 2025, 04:25
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That's excellent information, thank you! I've never been able to get the ethernet card working on the LC III. That's another thing I'm working on. I'll try those. Quote from: lauland Have you tested doing appletalk over your printer port WITHOUT the bridge installed? Yes, and appletalk between my LC III and 7200 works using a basic serial cable, and using PhoneNet.
Last Edit: February 24, 2025, 04:28 by ShinobiKenobi
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lauland
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512 MB Posts: 674 Symtes 7 Mewconer!
Reply #9 on: February 25, 2025, 16:01
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I think I DO remember looking at and trying IPNetRouter at some point in the distant past. The name is very familiar, but when I look at screenshots of it, they aren't ringing too many bells. I think I "evaluated" it for my job, and found although it may have done what we needed, but it may not have been able to handle the load of hundreds of LocalTalk machines. (At least I have half a memory like that...) It probably can do everything LocalTalk Bridge can do and MUCH more. It will definitely route between ports, but can also do NAT and other things needed to share an Internet connection. It is supposed to handle MacIP, which is key. I've downloaded it and am going to try it on my 7600 at some point soon.
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cballero
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1024 MB Posts: 1179 System 7, today and forever
Reply #10 on: February 25, 2025, 22:53
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I'd love to hear your impressions on IPNetRouter if you find any notes on this!  I've been wondering about trying it out as well, especially since it supports Mac OS 9 and older Mac OSes, and I think this includes emulated Macs!Also, here are IA links to the Wikipedia links you posted Sunday  · MacIP · LocalTalk-to-Ethernet bridge
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