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| Author | Anybody running their (color) Mac in 512x384? (Read 74737 times) | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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lauland
512 MB  Posts: 674 Symtes 7 Mewconer! 
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on: January 14, 2025, 18:07
My LC 475 only goes up to 256 colors in 640x480, but @cballero said in another thread he believes it will probably be able to do Thousands of colors if I can get it to run in 512x384. I've got several Mac-to-VGA adapters, with varying numbers of switches...and posted either here or on MG a while back where I was trying just this thing, but eventually gave up because every single adapter was different (sometimes radically), some worked, some didn't, etc. I also wasn't sure if I needed a monitor that could do a lower sync rate, or if it'd work with a VGA signal. Have any of you guys successfully done this? If so, let me know the switches you have on your adapter (assuming you're using one)...even if mine are different, it'd be a good place to start trying different combos. |
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Neal_SE30
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256 MB Posts: 401 System 7 Newcomer!
Reply #1 on: January 14, 2025, 19:29
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My iMac g3 doesn’t do that setting is os10.3.9 but I can try it in 9.2 to see if it can. Maybe some of Mac II’s on system 7 might, Seb’s IIci would be a good test. I’m also sure the color classic runs color in that resolution. It was a while ago when I used one but from what I remember that was part of the issue with them as you couldn’t play LC games.
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Bolkonskij
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Administrator 1024 MB  Posts: 2023
Reply #2 on: January 15, 2025, 08:28
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Isn't it the other way around? In that you can *only* play LC games at that resolution (optimized for that pesky 12" Apple monitor?) but not the myriad of Mac games requiring a 13" screen? Lower res games working on higher res gear, but not the other way around. I frankly haven't tried to run my IIci in 512x384, because I never saw any benefit in it. It has been running 640x480 with 256 colors or even black & white for the speed gain. Only reason I could think of is that it'd make certain old 80's black & white titles display nicer because they came with a fixed screen resolution that makes them not using full-screen on anything higher than 512x384. (their devs probably didn't bother to use QuickDraw, but coded up their own routines to write directly to the ScreenBuffer for the sake of speed ... but just assuming) lauland, are you positive your monitor CAN do 512x384 (24.48 kHz)? Because many modern LCD monitors don't do resolutions below 640x480 (only 31.5 kHz and above).
Last Edit: January 15, 2025, 08:36 by Bolkonskij
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lauland
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512 MB Posts: 674 Symtes 7 Mewconer!
Reply #3 on: January 15, 2025, 16:15
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All the LC's can definitely, and usually do, run in at least 640x480...at least if you have ANYTHING other than that particular tiny monitor. It's the Color Classic that Apple limited like that. (But there are ways around it). The only reason I'm interested is that some Mac models don't have enough VRAM to do "Thousands of colors" in 640x480, but should be able to do it in 512x384. Only because some software requires more colors...and it WOULD be slower, as it'd be pushing twice as many bytes per pixel. You're right, some really old software assumed the screen size of the original compact macs and won't run well or at all in higher resolutions. Finally, I am in no way sure my monitor can do that size, and wanted to see if anyone knew one way or the other if VGA monitors are able. Technically, the resolution (# of pixels wide) isn't completely tied to the scan or sync rates, and just about ANY kind of display is possible. Not that it'd "look" good, since the physical LCD pixels wouldn't line up! But it mostly depends on the video chips and what they put out. Luckily, I've got a relatively sophisticated scan converter thingie. My Amiga and Apple IIgs put out 15 hz signals (closer but not really to standard NTSC analog TV's), and that's the only way I can use them with a modern monitor. I think from my previous tries, I got close, but the scan converter got confused. The 12" monitor was a strange beast, and may have used a really odd rate near 25 hz. Technically it should have worked, being higher than the Amiga and IIgs, but the scan converter wasn't designed to handle such an odd rate. It may have actually been the vertical rate/size that was the problem...with it assuming you'd have either 200, 240 or some multiple of that. That is if I'm remembering correctly.
Last Edit: January 15, 2025, 16:17 by lauland
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MTT
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256 MB Posts: 394 SSW7 Oldtimer
Reply #4 on: January 16, 2025, 05:34
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The LC 475 supports 16 bit video at 512x384. But this requires finding and attaching a monitor which supports resolutions below 640x480. The LC 475 also supports 16 bit video at up to 832x624 by replacing the existing VRAM SIMMs with 2x512K VRAM SIMMs to gain 1MB VRAM. And also gains 8 bit video up to a 1152x870 display. Where you can find 512K VRAM SIMMs though would be another matter. Still, maybe easier to come by than a 12" monitor in good working order (and probably kinder on the eyes).
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cballero
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1024 MB Posts: 1179 System 7, today and forever
Reply #5 on: January 16, 2025, 08:25
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Imagine; 3D printing a case that could fit the internals of both the LC 475 and 12” display just to make an oversized color Mac, but at 512 by 384 in thousands of colors! Cool, if mostly useless, project; yet that was the Color Classic’s entire mission! 
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lauland
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512 MB Posts: 674 Symtes 7 Mewconer!
Reply #6 on: January 16, 2025, 15:43
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I'm going to see if my LC 475 uses the same kind of VRAM that any of my other Macs use...maybe I can scrounge what is needed out of one of them, if I'm lucky. It may not be possible to do 512x384 on anything but a real Apple 12" monitor due to the sync rate...at least without a hack of the OS video driver or something like that. I think my scan converter is designed mostly for more typical rates, and just can't handle such a weird signal. Probably a (several?) thousand dollar one that video professionals use might.
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Bolkonskij
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Administrator 1024 MB Posts: 2023
Reply #7 on: January 17, 2025, 10:36
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Quote from: MTT Where you can find 512K VRAM SIMMs though would be another matter. Actually, SiliconInsider in France has been doing *new* ones and is selling them for reasonable prices. I have been buying stuff from him and it works all fine. I see that he offers fitting PurpleRAM 512kB 68-pin VRAM SIMM Macintosh (modern browser needed) for 35$ right now. You're located in England @lauland, aren't you? Might be a good excuse for a weekend trip to Paris even? :-)
Last Edit: January 17, 2025, 10:39 by Bolkonskij
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lauland
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512 MB Posts: 674 Symtes 7 Mewconer!
Reply #8 on: January 17, 2025, 14:58
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I am, most sadly, on the other side of the pond from the land of Zebra Crossings, Bobbies, Chips that aren't silicon, and Biscuits that you'd never eat with gravy. My French comes via Louisiana and Quebec and would horrify a real Parisian. We only have Two Parties, and neither of them are fun. I'm still sorely tempted about that vram. At the same time...I'm at least able to get my Performa to run 640x480xThousands so I do have one system to test on...and I'm thinking the fact that my LC 475 is stuck in 256 colors could be as an impetus to force myself to, at some point, actually get SDL to work in that mode! Finally, if I'm lucky, some of the vram from either my Performa or my Quadra (or one of my PowerMacs) may still fit in the LC 475...
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