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| Author | Katheryn's Power Macintosh 6400/G3-300 (Read 75198 times) | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Jatoba
256 MB  Posts: 270 System 9 Newcomer! 
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Reply #15 on: May 24, 2024, 10:21
@wove All G5s have AltiVec in them, although the POWER4 they were based on didn't. However, G5s are also known to have less-perfoming AltiVec than G4s (per clock tick, that is-- since G5s generally had much higher clock speed than G4s, their AltiVec was able to compensate for this). On OS X, an example of an AltiVec-supporting program IIRC is the 7450 builds of TenFourFox. AltiVec AFAIK was a response to Intel's MMX and AMD's 3DNow!, and presumably AltiVec was more mature than both, from what I read from the blog of the developers of the Fantasm assembler/IDE, who provided examples. Of course, Intel/AMD would soon follow with SSE, SSE2 and later. IBM later adopted AltiVec for their later POWER line of server processors, and they call it "VMX" (not to be confused with another, much later addition called "VSX"). Apple calls it "Velocity Engine". It seems to be a processing resource worthy of keeping in mind if we are trying to squeeze all the performance out that is possible with G4 and G5 processors. I'm not writing anything like that myself, but maybe some other people might. I think it's cool it's there. I believe it has its own registers, just like how the FPU also has its own registers, built-in into all PowerPC processors. |
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Bolkonskij
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Administrator 1024 MB  Posts: 2023
Reply #16 on: May 24, 2024, 11:59
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Very nice upgrade @ alectrona! I can exactly relate to what you write ... working on these rare pieces with a soldering iron and my shaky hands makes me nervous, so I rather leave the soldering stuff to the pro's and pay them for doing it.
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lauland
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512 MB Posts: 674 Symtes 7 Mewconer!
Reply #17 on: May 24, 2024, 16:57
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Hey Kat, if you like, I can dig around in my "box o' ram pulled from old hardware" and see if I have any 64m dimms that'd fit your Mac...I know it'd take the same as my 6360. The good thing is I could test the config in my machine and get a feel that they'd work for you. If I find anything you might like, you can pay shipping and/or send me some cool/cute Tchotchke (or snack, etc) that represents where you live in exchange, which is usually what I do for this kind of thing. ---- I can attest that going G4 vs G3 (for my 7600) may not buy you as much as you'd think. I've got two Crescendo cards. I believe the G3 is 400 mhz and the G4 is 350 mhz (or however, the difference is close and the G4 is slower)...and the machine is absolutely snappier with the G3. There's also the trick that there were (at least) two generations of G4 chips, with the newer ones having significantly better design as far as number of execution units and cache...so not all G4 cards, even at the same clock speed will be the same. My iBook G4 is way faster than my TiBook, more than just accounting for clock speed. Cache size can make all the world of difference as you know!
Last Edit: May 24, 2024, 17:00 by lauland
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lauland
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512 MB Posts: 674 Symtes 7 Mewconer!
Reply #18 on: May 25, 2024, 05:20
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And, of course, the offer extends to anyone else, not just Kat! So it looks like the 6400 (and my 6360) maxes out with two 64m dimms...and at least some can use EDO: https://www.oempcworld.com/support/mac_memory_explained.html There's this line from that page that is confusing me: "Although you can use EDO memory in the Power Macintosh 5400 and 6400; Macintosh Performa 6400 series; and Macintosh Performa 6360/160 computers, you will not experience any benefit from doing so." So, does that mean it "supports EDO" (as in it WILL run and not just fail), but there's no point doing so? Like, if all you had was EDO, you'd be ok? The info about refresh rate is very interesting and I hadn't heard about that before...especially that explains why some dimms that are otherwise fine voltage wise may just not work.
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alectrona6400
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16 MB Posts: 28 Curious nerd woman with crazy ideas!
Reply #19 on: May 28, 2024, 00:00
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Interesting... always thought it would have an improvement with the machine but it seems not? I know another source said it would have improvements on select models of the Power Macintosh 6400 but I'm certain it wouldn't need it either way. I'll definitely talk to you about the RAM... would love to max this thing out with reliable modules!
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lauland
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512 MB Posts: 674 Symtes 7 Mewconer!
Reply #20 on: May 28, 2024, 16:36
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Me too! I remember hearing many times in the past that those boards "support EDO", and thought that meant "support and take advantage of EDO"...but maybe not? Maybe Apple added support just that they can use those dimms at all, ie as normal ram? I need to look in my "Box of ram". I definitely remember seeing some in there with EDO on them, but can't remember the form factor/size. It'd be great if I find EDO and non-EDO of the same size and could actually benchmark them. I'll let you know what I find...
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lauland
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512 MB Posts: 674 Symtes 7 Mewconer!
Reply #21 on: May 29, 2024, 03:38
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Ok, I have about 12 unused 168 pin dimms, but sadly none are 64m. Five of them are 32m, and the rest 16m and 8m's. I typed in the numbers/codes on them, but was only able to identify one of the 32m ones is EDO. Who knows about the others! If I have time I can benchmark that one vs the other 4, and see if I see any differences...I guess the only way I'd expect to is if the motherboard actually makes use of EDO and some of them are not EDO! I had a 16m and a 32m dimm in the 6360, for what it's worth, zero idea if they are EDO or not. ---- But...that dimm factor is used in a LOT of machines, including my 7600, which I have no idea what is in it. I've got a few other old Macs and PC's lying around that probably use the same ram also. So further looking might turn up a 64m dimm or two, hopefully! (None of these are my "main classic Mac", unlike your 6400, so I don't mind parting with any 64m dimms I might find).
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alectrona6400
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16 MB Posts: 28 Curious nerd woman with crazy ideas!
Reply #22 on: May 30, 2024, 07:03
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Awwwwh shucks. That's okay though, for now 104MB works fine. I don't really need a new set of RAM after discovering the issue was with my Farallon PN993 network card being physically rough and due to the fact that card shouldve been put to rest several years back.
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lauland
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512 MB Posts: 674 Symtes 7 Mewconer!
Reply #23 on: May 30, 2024, 16:46
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Well, good thing, because it looks like I have TONS of 32m dimms, but no 64m ones! (It turns out my 7600 has four 32m's in it). I did some reading up on EDO, in an attempt to see if I could figure out a scenario where your ram might be causing you trouble, but didn't come up with anything: Probably only the higher end 6400 ("200 mhz shipped with zip drive") motherboard takes advantage of EDO, other models can't. It's safe to use EDO in machines that don't take advantage of it. (I was hoping this was your issue, but no...ie you had EDO and needed to switch to non-EDO). EDO can give around a 10% speed boost to a system when it works. Very few macs can take advantage, mostly 5500 and 6500, but maybe 4400 and 5400 or others with similar motherboards.
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