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| Author | Emulating the Commodore64 on a 68k Macintosh (Read 96264 times) | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Bolkonskij
Administrator 1024 MB  Posts: 2023 
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on: October 28, 2025, 13:27
Hi folks, since I have some fond memories of the C64 and own an upgraded IIci running System 7.1, I've been wondering what my options are in terms of emulating a retro C64 on a retro Mac! The 68030@40 Mhz CPU should be fast enough, shouldn't it? Given the C64 operates on a measly 1 Mhz ... So I've been looking around searching for the perfect solution. Kind of what VICE has become for modern systems in terms of C64 emulation. There's the Commodore 64 emulator that I've run into and uploaded to the Garden some time ago. It even supports b&w for those SE/30s out there! It brings up Basic, but the good half a dozen roms from the net that I threw at it wouldn't boot. Perhaps needs further testing, perhaps it's only compatible with era appropriate ROMs? Otherwise was looking good, felt it had decent performance when I was testing it with Basic. There's a version of Richard Bannister's Frodo, which up until v4.1.9 promises a FAT binary, albeit requiring Appearance Manager. Also available on the Mac Garden. I’ll put trying out 4.1.9 on my to-do list and will report back. There is Power64 from Austria from a very friendly developer, unfortunately, it appears to be only suitable for PowerPC Macs. It appears to be really nice and polished though! Mac64 appears to be another C64 emulator for 68k Macs, being from 1994. However, info on it is very scarce and even the Mac Garden entry is low on info. Has anyone tried this one out? Does anybody know of any more C64 emulators for 68k Mac? Anyone else wants to join in testing stuff? 
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Last Edit: October 29, 2025, 05:00 by Bolkonskij
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lauland
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512 MB  Posts: 674 Symtes 7 Mewconer!
Reply #1 on: October 28, 2025, 15:00
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(Warning, may contain nuts and modern links) There's no VICE for m68k? Hmm...I'd say that's the gold standard for commodore emulation. Then there's MESS...which emulates pretty much ANY home computer, and does ALL the commodores very well...but I guess none for m68k either...unless somebody got off their butt and worked on a port, eh? (But then even if it got finished who's to say it would run well enough to be useful...sigh). --- The speed of the 1 mhz cpu is deceptive. It was very efficient for what it was, and gave z80's at more than twice its speed a run for the money...the folks that designed the ARM cpu took inspiration from it, when they needed to move on fro the 6502 they didn't think ANY other design was worthy...unlike apple and atari and commodore they skipped past the 68000...and the rest is history. And you'd think a 320x200x16 color screen would be zero problem for a color mac...until you realize it would actually have to be a 640x480x256 screen 90% of the time, and having to move 8 times as much data per pixel... Heck...only 64k of memory?!? Any decent mac has multiples and multiples of that! 170 KILOBYTE floppies?!? 8-16k roms?!? Teeny tiny! But unless you're running on a fast machine the experience is...not good... ---- And then it eventually dawns on you...maybe even after you've gone crazy and written an emulator yourself (it helps!)...cough...something in my throat...what?!?...that emulation is one of the hardest most computational intensive things a computer can run...maybe even harder than games, which are hard enough! Anyway, it could be done on an '030, and you might find a version of something...HAS been done...looks like you already found a few possibilities. (I remember running one on my 8mhz 68000 amiga, but it was pretty horrible....memories!) But don't expect miracles, or even, maybe a great time. Running retro on retro itself... I'm not wanting to rain on any parades, and obviously I love retro and emulation, but there are good technical reasons emulation on older machines is very difficult to run well. I speak from some experience. ---- I did an m68k port of UAE (Amiga emulator) 0.8.6 because the source code was there and I couldn't see any reason it didn't exist. It... worked... perfectly... but... oh so slow! And its a bit apples and oranges, but you can extrapolate to how the average commodore 64 emulation would go. Even 8 times faster, it would still lag the real machine. result discussion So, obviously I'm not against TRYING...cough...Attempts to build m68k MacMESS...but you hit a point of diminishing returns unfortunately. The amount of hard (human) work vs the end results on m68k have been disappointing...I love the cpu dearly...but it can only push so many numbers. Even hand written assembly could promise a x2 or x4 improvement MAYBE...but you'd be talking about a HEROIC lonely effort for a vanishingly small audience...and how many folk are writing hand m68k these days?!? Now...get me a TEAM so I'm not just sitting alone coding...and who knows? And where IS my PiStorm for Mac?!? (Or a 68060 board? OMG...no...)
Last Edit: October 28, 2025, 15:14 by lauland
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68kmac
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32 MB Posts: 51 System 7 Newcomer!
Reply #2 on: October 28, 2025, 16:49
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forget it  i once had ccs64 on a 286-12. It was ...Well... good enough for Green beret. Emulating the 6510 is not the problem, but the other parts (screen updating, sprites, CIA,...) - thats the Thing. To emulate a c64 and allowing all Tricks and Things, a c64 could do, even a 68060 wouldnt enough for it.
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ClassicHasClass
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32 MB Posts: 39
Reply #3 on: October 28, 2025, 17:52
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Sadly, good (i.e., cycle exact) C64 emulation is just too much even for a fast '040. A line-based emulator like Frodo might squeak by. I was a big user of Power64 and Power20. They both integrate extremely well with the Mac. It has some odd little gaps in its emulation but it does a very good job with most software and runs even on modest Power Macs. The filesystem integration made it excellent for development. However, I tried for a while to get the author to release the source code, which he wouldn't, and now VICE is pretty much the gold standard. I still use Power64 on OS 9 though.
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68040
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512 MB Posts: 950 68k - thy kingdom come, thy will be done !
Reply #4 on: October 28, 2025, 18:17
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Boing, boing - challenge accepted! Tell me a game I should try to emulate on my emulated C64 emulator.
Last Edit: November 03, 2025, 18:31 by 68040
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Cashed
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128 MB Posts: 192 System 7 Newcomer!
Reply #5 on: November 02, 2025, 19:03
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Thanks for this interesting thread and the usable feedback. I stumbled upon this a few years back. OSBooster · Cogco International Ltd 1998 From the makers who brought you Hippo CMM and Realtalk CGI. OSBooster will run your DOS emulator at a speed you could only otherwise achieve by upgrading your hardware —could C64 emulators potentially benefit? Works with almost any other application, great for RealPC, SoftWindows and VirtualPC. Requirements: PPC with MacOS 7.6.1 or above Download OSBooster v1.0.3 Currently 1 remaining copy left, made available thanks to sysop Jason Scott · Discmaster. Credits to @meta-one for uploading the Australian PC User magazine CD-ROMs. PS, There should also be a version available on Macwelt Leser-CD 6/99 Please consider storing and securing a backup. Downloads always scanned with Agax, Disinfectant, and Virex, prior to linking.
Last Edit: November 02, 2025, 19:12 by Cashed
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wove
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1024 MB Posts: 1363
Reply #6 on: November 03, 2025, 03:22
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I had to take a look at OSBooster mostly just to see what it is. Looking at It reminds me of the "Classic" Settings Pane in OS X up until Tiger. It appears to be just a collection of Extension Manager settings to turn things you need or do not need off and on, with a bit to launch first at startup. That can be pretty handy, but of course can be manually implemented. The Sad Macs Bombs. . . and The Macintosh Bible have chapters devoted to doing such things to improve performance for various software. An old Mac video editor "Strata Video" devotes a solid chapter in the manual to such proper configurations for video ediiting. Along with the likes of Ram Doubler and Speed Doubler, I tend to view such software as the computer equivalent of nutrition supplements. In the one area, you would be better off over the long haul to learn to eat better, and in the other area you would be better off learning how your system works and how to use it better.
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Bolkonskij
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Administrator 1024 MB Posts: 2023
Reply #7 on: November 04, 2025, 16:14
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Just want to drop a "thanks!" to everybody for replying in this thread. Seems like the IIci might not be as good for the task as I thought. Oh well, it was worth a try ... :-)
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wove
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1024 MB Posts: 1363
Reply #8 on: November 05, 2025, 15:17
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If you are fond of the C=64 because of the rather enticing Basic command line then you might checkout Chipmonk Basic. Most of the old type-in BASIC applications will work in Chipmunk Basic with very little converting needed. You might dig through some archive type in BASIC applications and come across a simple spreadsheet application. Then you could track all those massive assets just like one would do on the old Commodore 64. Or maybe the Vic 20 if you like me and do not have that many assets.
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