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| Author | Do you think bounties could work for System 7 stuff? (Read 18417 times) | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Bolkonskij
Administrator 1024 MB  Posts: 2023 
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on: November 27, 2023, 11:03
Pretty sure most of you are familiar with "bounties" - basically the good old hat that everyone puts a few $$ in and pledging to give this to a programmer upon finishing a certain task. The advantage is that it allows interested programmers to invest more time into programming for niche systems as they know they'll get paid for it vs. investing many hours of free time with uncertain return on investment. (e.g. will people pay the shareware fee?) There's a lot of pros and cons to this idea, other vintage computing groups (e.g. the Amigans) have been using bounties in the past. Do you think this could be something helping to reinvigorate development for retro Macs and some much needed add-ons, programs and enhancements? |
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wove
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1024 MB  Posts: 1363
Reply #1 on: November 27, 2023, 15:18
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Where I have seen bounties used, it has seemed that it never went that well. Lots of hassles about what the bounty is specifically for and is this or that piece of work close enough to count. People tend to think they are giving money for something they specifically want and feel cheated when it is not exactly what they expect. Perhaps something similar would be to set up a fund and offer rewards. Like, best game, best app, best new site, best new hardware. The voting could be done via a (secrete) poll. Get a cash prize, maybe some hype and promo on the front page. I think something along these lines could reward "doers" for doing things they like todo, without pushing them into focusing on something just for a little cash. I do not know how effective this would be, but most bounties I have come across seem to leave too many people, supporters and bounty hunters feeling disappointed. Plus a prize or award is only expended on "finished" things.
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cballero
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1024 MB Posts: 1179 System 7, today and forever
Reply #2 on: November 29, 2023, 16:59
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So, recomposing a lost post again.. I too have long had a similar thought, Bolkonskij  one of a virtual lab where different programmers could all log onto a sort of LAN-connected Classic Mac environment with shared volumes to update or port existing programs with their source code or collaborate together on something new, all sandboxed, likely within a virtual desktop, further enhanced with a dedicated discord and/or IRC chat communications and PM and/or email for bigger conversations and shares, and one of the LAN chat apps recently added to the MG may even work perfectly for this.This would be easier if they logged/remoted in from newer OSes, so that was one of the hurdles I saw; but other than this, I think it would foster a more cohesive effort than just starting a new GitHub project or crowd-funded offering. I don't know, but I really believe that such types of projects could have a better shot, can thrive more and be ultimately more fruitful in a group dynamic rather than in the traditional, more isolated effort of an individual programmer.
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lauland
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512 MB Posts: 674 Symtes 7 Mewconer!
Reply #3 on: January 10, 2024, 17:25
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I've stepped up to some challenges recently, and my motivations/rewards varied. In the past one thing I'd ask, when doing that kind of thing, was to be sent something/anything from someone's country/state. It's really nice having something physical to have on the shelf. Arashi in BW: I'd hoped this would be a group project, and others definitely helped, but I ended up really just doing it...the reward was proving to myself I could, and it got me back into Classic programming and using my older hardware. It was fun optimizing the graphics routines. https://macintoshgarden.org/forum/calling-all-programmers-arashi-in-black-and-white UAE 0.8.6 on m68k: Did this because I love Amiga, and I guessed (thankfully correctly), that it wouldn't be hard. Of dubious utility due to speed, but the requester is actually running it in Basilisk on a modern PC so works well for him! https://macintoshgarden.org/forum/any-more-recent-amiga-emulator-68k Attack of the PETSCII Robots on Mac: Ongoing. I really want this to be a group learning/teaching effort. I got it to the point where what remains will be relatively simple for color Macs...although am aiming for MacPlus! Still hoping the reward will be contacts in the community, and fostering m68k programmers... https://macintoshgarden.org/forum/the-petscii-robot-challenge And now, Goliath for m68k: Hoping this will be similar to UAE in that the source is available for PPC...if we're lucky it won't be more difficult. If it turns out it needs more a lot more work, I'll get it far as I can and then then hope (maybe!) others can finish...again fostering other programmers. https://system7today.com/forums/index.php?topic=3721.msg15810;topicseen#msg15810 I guess the point I'm trying to make is, although it can be nigh impossible for people to find time, I'm hoping to be an example/inspire, and (maybe?) get group efforts going. They may not have time to code, but if they set up the compiler and build, they might see something odd or have ideas. And then maybe find enough time to change a line or two! Jeez sorry, I know I sound like I'm crowing (look at me! how wonderful I am!), I'm not, but only wanted to give examples that could've been bounties, and show my motivation/rewards...
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68040
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512 MB Posts: 950 68k - thy kingdom come, thy will be done !
Reply #4 on: January 10, 2024, 20:40
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Not to put a fly in that ointment, but I had posted some news here that getting new projects for vintage software off the ground got a whole lot more challenging in the EU because of rigid new security requirements about to be imposed by Brussels. As I doubt it be possible to harden 1990's style software to 2024 standards, every programming effort large enough to attract the wrong attention here risks running awfoul of these laws. It be interesting to see how other vintage projects like eComStation or FreeDOS will handle this.
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lauland
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512 MB Posts: 674 Symtes 7 Mewconer!
Reply #5 on: January 10, 2024, 22:13
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I saw that! A bit horrifying. I'm hoping with open source, the genie is out of the bottle, in society. It's just impossible to make any new vintage software "compliant"...but...people like us will still download it and run it...hopefully only in safe environments. Just looking at Goliath, having to find the version of openssl it uses, the first thing that showed up is a list of vulnerabilities. If they aren't mediated, it will be unsafe to use right out of the box. But that doesn't mean it shouldn't be done...any vintage system is unsafe to use in the real world...other than security through obscurity, and if the latest version of javascript isn't supported, etc, most vulnerabilities can't affect it, etc, and if they did, who'd want to take over a quadra 800? - Anyway, blah blah blah. I talk way too much. It's just been so refreshing discovering you guys, and I'm probably overeager to share, you know? I promise I won't respond to every single thread until you're sick of me...too late? I think I'm like a puppy at their first dog park...
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68040
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512 MB Posts: 950 68k - thy kingdom come, thy will be done !
Reply #6 on: January 11, 2024, 00:20
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@lauland - You'll have to wait until hell freezes over before we could get "sick" of someone like you.  So let's hope Lucifer won't have the same problems paying his heating bill anytime soon that so many of us experience right now.  But seriously - we are here to talk and what you say makes a heck of a lot more sense than what I get from switching on the mainstream news. So, keep on "blablah'ing", please.
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cballero
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1024 MB Posts: 1179 System 7, today and forever
Reply #7 on: January 11, 2024, 00:47
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I am humbled at the inspiring amount of good-heartedness and coding prowess in the room!! I took some BASIC and PASCAL programming in school but outside of class didn't do much with it directly. It did, however, launch me into learning good ol' HTML, which I did for a good minute along with some light JavaScripting on the side for button-rollover effects as well as put GIFs together in ImageReady and just a tad of Flash animation for some cool graphic effects in now old browsers. I also worked on Macs, a little, but no serious, modding; no AppleScripting or programming in the platform at all, outside of lightly fiddling with Resedit for some tasty, snack-sized hacks, many out of the AOL or Mac mags I also super enjoyed seeing the plethora of Kaleidoscope Schemes and Apple's theming for 8.5 and up, but again, never found any good videos to kind of lead the way into creating new Mac themes  Now I only wish I did have spare time to do more than just the quick post here or there, and when inspired, struggle through some process to help others to get a little Mac up in emulation, especially those without the wallets to really go for broke on some real hardware. I do have five Macs at home (yay!) but I know some just look at all of this and wish they could join in all the fun so at least I try to help facilitate some of that with my limited tech skills, so I guess I do qualify as a Mac power-user? As opposed to a PowerMac user (although I do use PowerMacs)  Oh! And of course I did fall in love with FMP, too!! It made database programming a breeze, which is why I am bent on squeezing some new tricks out of that good ol' dog! Or is it Dog-Cow?  So all that to say, you've very welcome here fellow Mac-rambler, to the Vintage Mac 'Cheers' pub!
Last Edit: January 11, 2024, 00:49 by cballero
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Bolkonskij
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Administrator 1024 MB Posts: 2023
Reply #8 on: January 11, 2024, 07:25
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I'd like to chime in with my fellow Mac users - we're a friendly little System 7 / Mac OS community focusing on actually using the stuff! Thus we very much appreciate your investment in time and energy, @lauland. Please don't worry about it, your contributions are very welcome! I think what you do is very cool and I wish I had more time/energy to revive my projects and get them off the ground. I really should get into them again. One thought about making this a learning experience - any plans to copy and paste stuff into a plain text html document for future reference? Videos are OK, but I really prefer a structured low-formatting / high info approach - ideally one I can read when I'm on my System 7 Mac, eliminating the need for a second device?
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68040
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512 MB Posts: 950 68k - thy kingdom come, thy will be done !
Reply #9 on: January 11, 2024, 09:43
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Srapbooks, Scrapbooks, Scrapbooks please! I'm just now getting the heck of ScrapIt Pro and I am ready to scrap the whole darn world into my books. Its such a marvelous creativity tool that I wonder why I've never heard about anything like it outside of Mac. Even today's Linux counterparts such as FeatherNote or Basket NotePad are not as sleek and easy to use as Scrapbooks are. And heck, those even work [a lot] slower (try using Basket with more than dozen multimedia notes and you'll see what I mean). So, please, skip the HTML stuff and let's scrap us some.
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