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| Author | VesperNet PPP Magic! (Read 188732 times) | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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fogWraith
32 MB  Posts: 59 
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on: June 22, 2025, 19:31
Oh hello, I am writing this from an emulated environment, there is no ethernet support enabled in the operating system. Apparently, there is a serial bridge that allows connecting to VesperNet, Mac OS 8 is enjoying the Dial-Up connection. I can report that System 7 Today isnt too slow over a 56k connection. Anyways, some exciting stuff being worked on, VesperNet is growing. |
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cballero
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1024 MB Posts: 1176 System 7, today and forever
Reply #1 on: June 23, 2025, 06:03
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Wait, you’re doing a dial-up connection to access everything, through an emulated environment? (it makes me wonder, how are you doing that? through a land line?)  now that’s a new one for me  and it’s Mac OS 7.7? ( my pet nickname for OS 8 ) how cool is that? 
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fogWraith
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32 MB Posts: 59
Reply #2 on: June 23, 2025, 09:01
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I don't have the hardware required to test the method on real hardware (pi/serial or equivalent) but it would essentially be the same thing. So I have been working on something for VesperNet for a while now and it's finally at a stage where it feels somewhat stable enough, and that is "dial-up" for VesperNet. I've tried to keep it as simple as possible to set up for hobbyists / non-hobbyists to be able to connect, I'll be making a writeup and make the tool required available fairly soon, depending on how much I have at my actual job  There's three stages to this one though, first one is PPP over TCP (a bridge is required, think modem "emulation"), and should not be confused with PPPoE. PPPoE is the second stage, and finishing off with VPN. Regardless of which method is used, one would end up on the same network, and it would be possible that users connected to the network can interact with one another, even if you're behind CGNAT, routers and/or whatevers. It just needs testing to see if my braining worked it out properly. So far, the PPP method is like dialing in to a real ISP, there is authentication, authentic dial-up feel etc., very jazz-like  Fancy Link #1, Fancy Link #2
Last Edit: June 23, 2025, 12:04 by fogWraith
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snes1423
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256 MB Posts: 458 A Man born of Mechina
Reply #3 on: June 23, 2025, 13:00
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will this require a landline/modem on real hardware or can we configure it somehow over ethernet? sorry im inknowledgable about most of of this stuff
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lauland
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512 MB Posts: 674 Symtes 7 Mewconer!
Reply #4 on: June 23, 2025, 14:56
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I've got pi's and lots of other serial hardware, so can test stuff when/if I have time. This is mondo super cool. And will be a great way to get ancient hardware online for which ethernet is impossible or just very expensive to do. Things like Mac pluses or crippled old amigas and ataris.
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fogWraith
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32 MB Posts: 59
Reply #5 on: June 23, 2025, 15:16
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Quote from: snes1423 will this require a landline/modem on real hardware or can we configure itNo landline required, no real modem required, no specific operating system required. The only thing required is a username and password for service access, and you can either "dial in" with Windows 3.11 in an emulator where the host OS and guest OS has agreed on a serial port to use (where the "modem" is connected over serial) For instance, if my host is macOS 15.5, I can run QEMU with the -serial pty variable, QEMU will tell me which /dev/ttyXXX is assigned for the QEMU serial communication. An application (open source) is then run that hooks in to that /dev/ttyXXX and will act as your modem. From the Guest OS, simply add a serial modem, input anything and click connect, and the bridge/emulated modem will take care of the rest. That's it in simple/broad strokes. The same principle applies if this application is run from, say a raspberry pi that is connected to your super real computer serial port, it will act as a modem connected to the serial port. There will be a guide for this, and I'm planning an open test sometime during this saturday and sunday
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cballero
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1024 MB Posts: 1176 System 7, today and forever
Reply #6 on: June 23, 2025, 15:57
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Wow, it sounds like we're all gonna be able to finaly party like it's 1999 using serial connections from our emulated (and non-emulated) System 7 environments!
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snes1423
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256 MB Posts: 458 A Man born of Mechina
Reply #7 on: June 24, 2025, 03:04
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ok but is it required on real hardware for instance XP SP1 on a 2002 Dell PC r can i just use some sort of proxy or other means to access this service natively?
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Bolkonskij
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Administrator 1024 MB  Posts: 2023
Reply #8 on: June 24, 2025, 06:48
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This sounds like a fun idea! Quote from: cballero Wow, it sounds like we're all gonna be able to finaly party like it's 1999 When this goes live, let's have a S7T terminal emulation party and meet up somewhere within Z-Term, like a multi-player MUD or something
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fogWraith
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32 MB Posts: 59
Reply #9 on: June 25, 2025, 13:18
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Quote from: snes1423 but is it required on real hardware for instance XP SP1 on a 2002 Dell PC r can i just use some sort of proxy or other means to access this service natively? Good question, I haven't tried it yet, but it might potentially work natively as well, since it does take up a serial device when used, such as COM3 or the likes. In any case, the first public test is fairly exciting, will it work, will it crash and burn, or will it do something else
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cballero
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1024 MB Posts: 1176 System 7, today and forever
Reply #10 on: June 25, 2025, 22:19
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Or..all of the above?
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fogWraith
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32 MB Posts: 59
Reply #11 on: June 26, 2025, 18:22
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I don't have any machines that run XP <> 8 natively, I do however have a laptop with Windows 10, and while it is able to connect to the service over dial-up with 2 simple solutions (my bridge and a null-modem emulator), there are some issues that need to be addressed. Windows 10 and 11 are incredibly aggressive when it comes to connecting to services. Normally I have this laptop connected over WiFi, it works great. If I "dial" out and connect, it will disconnect the WiFi which the bridge relies on. If I connect an ethernet cable, it will disconnect the WiFi, but it will also disconnect the ethernet if I connect over PPP, which the bridge relies on. This can be partially solved by disabling the automatic metrics (ipv4 advanced settings, metrics) and manually setting a ~high value, such as 50 or something along those lines, and giving the PPP connection a lower value than the ethernet counterpart. The next issue comes when it no longer disconnects the ethernet connection, PPP takes over and the ethernet status goes into "no internet" status. This might be an issue in 7, 8, 10 and 11, or just 10 and 11, I don't know. Either way, it might work natively in 7 and 8, a bit of doubt for XP and lower since the bridge is written in Python. Then again I don't have anything to test this with. This will probably work fine natively under *NIX, or using an external device (pi with serial/usb or equivalent). In my humble opinion, modern Windows is hot garbage and I won't really focus much on resolving Windows issues.
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cballero
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1024 MB Posts: 1176 System 7, today and forever
Reply #12 on: June 26, 2025, 22:58
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Dump Windows, yay..lol! So the sweet spot may be Windows 7 and 8 then, sounds good..to me at least, lol!
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fogWraith
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32 MB Posts: 59
Reply #13 on: June 27, 2025, 08:57
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As I've previously mentioned, there are three stages for this project, the first one being PPP. So for anything modern, PPPoE and VPN will be the way to go (since they will end up on the same network), once I reach those stages. There is much still to be done on the PPP side. This is the best solution I can think of right now for modern operating systems, specifically Windows. I have been tinkering quite a bit with the various modem bitrates, so there is currently an authentic experience from 300bps up to 56kbps, and support for a variety of ISDN setups as well as some basic ADSL plans. When I get far enough, there will be "basic plans" available to play with, and depending on how things look where users want to provide services on the actual network itself, there will most likely be "business plans". No money involved, but there will probably be some sort of strict guidelines for "business" and "enterprise" so that there won't be any kind of playing around for 5 minutes and leaving permanently for unknown reasons. Here's a small test. These are not on the local network, if that's what anyone thinks by looking at the IP address. Tiny Screenshot
Last Edit: June 27, 2025, 09:02 by fogWraith
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snes1423
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256 MB Posts: 458 A Man born of Mechina
Reply #14 on: June 27, 2025, 18:38
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how about on old non-computer hardware like a PDA or Newton or for that matter a Sega console like the Saturn/Dreamcast
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