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| Author | Building firefox/mozilla/etc from source (Read 94565 times) | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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lauland
512 MB  Posts: 674 Symtes 7 Mewconer! 
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Reply #45 on: July 17, 2024, 17:12
I still have more to add to the page...I need to stuffit the configured "MacPerl" and "Mac OS Support". Those are safe to move/copy from machine to machine (no goofy/weird aliases to break), and will save a lot of time for people. Especially since there were some sticky/irritating gotchas getting them both fully set up. (Obs along with added explanations of what those gotchas were!) ---- One very useful thing that COULD be done would end up being a one-stop-shop script ala "The Unofficial TenFourFox Development Kit"...it has one that does all the actual downloading and file placement for you, which is very very nice. If this were MacOS X I'd be writing that script right now in Bash, but, since it's strictly MacOS 9, it would have to be AppleScript or (probably better in this particular case) Perl. It wouldn't be trivial to write, so I probably won't try, especially since there's so much that could go wrong in such a fragile/bizarre setup/build process (ie it'd have to be tested a LOT before I deemed it safe to share). But, even without it, I can save a lot of painful steps with the two archives I mentioned above added. ---- BTW I didn't see anything along the way that actually required MacOS 9...building in 8.5/8.6 should be perfectly fine. In fact, other than CodeWarrior OS support, it PROBABLY could be done on even older versions of MacOS. I thought about the possibility of building it FOR PowerPC, but ON M68k...not that it'd be useful in the slightest, and slow as heck (except in Basilisk)! But technically, the fact that CodeWarrior 7 doesn't run on it is the only reason you couldn't do it. It could be tried with CodeWarrior 5, but the differences in the compiler add a LOT of unknowns. I don't think I'd want to actually try it...the build process is delicate enough as is! (And all the dang .mcp files would need to be changed!) But the reason I'd contemplate TRYING is my staunch philosophy that any CPU is a good CPU and any OS is a good OS...not being able to run whatever particular software package you like on ANY machine CAN be due to things like missing support (like Unicode for M68k), but a lot of times it comes down to the human issue that people just never bothered to do the compile for one architecture or another because they are too "old" or too "slow" (or too "uncommon"). Sometimes, like with my Gopher and/or Jabbernaut builds, "requirements" for MacOS 8.5 can be gotten around relatively easily...just nobody has/had bothered to try. Or things that "require" Carbon, just because they liked using the new Event Manager and/or other API's...extremely similar with sometimes arbitrarily requiring Appearance Manager as we have all cussed about...but with a little work, System 7 equivalents aren't THAT hard. Just nobody to do them! Related...but probably quite painful...would be the still-mythical M68k native Classilla...anybody willing to try, I would definitely absolutely help...but the cost/benefit for me not worth the huge amount of (honestly somewhat "thankless") work to attempt it mostly solo... ---- One thing I WILL be trying is building in Classic on MacOS X. During all the experimenting, copying builds from machine to machine, I did let a bit of the process run, and it went just fine. As long as CodeWarrior is run in Classic and not as Carbon, I think it would "just work". I didn't put too much effort into it because somewhere along the line CodeWarrior became recalcitrant and started failing to launch and giving bizarre Carbon errors. But I think at that point I hadn't done a fresh/clean install, and if I tried it again, it actually WOULD totally just work. ...if I could build it in MacOS X I could actually use my stubbornly uncooperative dual G4 cpu card and get it to under 2 hours! This would eliminate a large barrier of entry in requiring machines old enough to run MacOS 9 natively. ---- Part of a "CleanZilla" might be making it more FireFox-like...Classilla IS Mozilla, in that it is the full suite. I don't know how much value (save memory? size?) there'd be in disabling/removing things like the html editor and mail/news (and more?), but that is an "obvious" thing that could be done. |
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Last Edit: July 17, 2024, 17:47 by lauland
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lauland
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512 MB Posts: 674 Symtes 7 Mewconer!
Reply #46 on: July 17, 2024, 20:38
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FYI: Added more instructions/hints/warnings and the already-setup ready-to-go "MacOS Support" and "MacPerl" folders to the MG page. I think that's about everything. Let me know if you think anything else needs to be added. ---- I'm going to try building in MacOS X, but otherwise, for me, this is a good stopping point.
Last Edit: July 17, 2024, 23:04 by lauland
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garambo
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16 MB Posts: 29 System 7 Newcomer!
Reply #47 on: July 18, 2024, 01:19
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Insanely great work, thank you! Managed to build it on OS X and thanks to all the resources provided, it works! Took some notes during the process, posting them here: Quote CodeWarrior Setup:
Last Edit: July 18, 2024, 18:24 by garambo
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lauland
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512 MB Posts: 674 Symtes 7 Mewconer!
Reply #48 on: July 18, 2024, 16:51
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Wh00t! Seriously...wh00t! @garambo very very nice! I needed a "second" to verify my work and you have not only provided it in spades, but ALSO did it on MacOS X! (on a G5!!!) (I just fired my G4 up this morning to make an attempt at that, but now I don't need to...rockin'!!!!!) What you did with setting up your own CVS server to get around that hitch was brilliant! (I never needed to do that...see below...) I also liked the way you side-stepped the whole "RunTSScript" builld-get-stuck-and-have-to-restart-codewarrior step. Nice idea. With your permission, I'd like to take your notes and we can work on them together and add them to the MG page in some form, because they are VERY VERY good. (Maybe the best yet, better than the original and mine). I'm thinking they're too long to incorporate into the page itself, so as a "building_notes" or other "readme" text file? Let me know if this is ok...or...if you'd like, just go ahead and do it yourself. Your notes are detailed and clear enough as is they actually don't need my input! The fact that you got it built on MacOS X (on a G5 even!) could be crucial/key for the future of Classilla...IMHO! (I'm itching to see how long it takes with my recalcitrant dual G4 card in MacOS X!) ---- From when I was working on it, it looks like the original original original (as in even pre-Classila, just what came from the Mozilla people on the original Mac mozilla build, pre-Cameron's work) would first thing try and sync the source via CVS (from a server/repo that no longer exists), exactly as you saw...but this was only triggered when I tried a debug build (and other weird things) and NOT when I just did a normal build via "BuildMozilla.pl". (As far as I can tell, the debug build is broken). @garambo could you let us know exactly what you were doing when it tried to do a CVS pull? As I said, I did NOT see it doing that during my (quite) numerous build attempts. Maybe you tried "PullMozlla.pl"? I want to add notes for other people trying builds about that so they don't run into it...few people are as brave and/or brainy enough as you and would even try setting up their own CVS server...as I said, I didn't need to, and aren't sure why you saw that behavior...maybe it was a strange MacOS X side effect?
Last Edit: July 18, 2024, 17:47 by lauland
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garambo
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16 MB Posts: 29 System 7 Newcomer!
Reply #49 on: July 18, 2024, 17:45
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@lauland thanks! Please, feel free to add my instructions on the Garden, that would be great! So, I double checked my instructions and noticed there is a missing step related to MacPerl - Copying over the Moz folder from the Source (going to update my original post). Started 9.3.3 and 9.3.4b clean builds and encountered the request for a MacCVS Session. And it seems to be caused by one of the scripts from Moz (BuildMozilla.pl), if none is selected: Quote ---- Start of pull ----
Last Edit: July 18, 2024, 17:49 by garambo
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lauland
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512 MB Posts: 674 Symtes 7 Mewconer!
Reply #50 on: July 18, 2024, 17:48
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Weird! I wonder if that only happens if you have a MacCVS app installed? Since I didn't, it just failed and didn't try? I think I'd just copy your post as is into a readme file, but, like I said, you could do that if you like. (I know I personally always get a dopamine/serotonin boost when I get to add anything to MG and wouldn't want to take that from you!)
Last Edit: July 18, 2024, 17:53 by lauland
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garambo
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16 MB Posts: 29 System 7 Newcomer!
Reply #51 on: July 18, 2024, 17:58
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I didn't have it too - looking at the script, the pull is done as part of the build action in the RunBuild subroutine (called by BuildMozilla.pl): PullFromCVS($input_files->{"checkoutdata"}, $input_files->{"checkouttime"}) calls CheckoutModules and causes the build to fail if no CVS session is provided. I updated the instructions with the missing step related to MacPerl, so it should be correct now - please feel free to add it to a readme file 
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Jatoba
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256 MB Posts: 270 System 9 Newcomer!
Reply #52 on: July 18, 2024, 18:35
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@garambo Thanks for covering further ground over all these possibilities and steps, and for working together with @lauland on this.  I, too, really like it how you got a G5 to work with this. As a pure Mac OS user, I forgot that one great redeeming quality of Mac OS X is precisely the fact that, at the very least, it can boot G5s, and make great use of such great hardware. I surely miss having access to my Quad G5s right now! By the way, did you run CodeWarrior Pro 7.1 via Classic like @lauland planned, or as a natively-run Mac OS X Carbon app? And I assume the version of Mac OS X 10.4 was the "client" one, "10.4.11"?
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Bolkonskij
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Administrator 1024 MB  Posts: 2023
Reply #53 on: July 18, 2024, 18:36
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Guys, how about adding it to the Mac OS 9 Lives page? That'd be the place for it and you could link to it from the Garden. The Garden isn't really made for such kind of tutorials / "know how" articles and such. I'm sure Knezzen would love to give you a hand and you can easily embed images and stuff too.
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garambo
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16 MB Posts: 29 System 7 Newcomer!
Reply #54 on: July 18, 2024, 18:45
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Quote from: Jatoba By the way, did you run CodeWarrior Pro 7.1 via Classic like @lauland planned, or as a natively-run Mac OS X Carbon app? And I assume the version of Mac OS X 10.4 was the "client" one, "10.4.11"? Yes, correct, otherwise it wouldn't be possible to run the MPW ToolServer (the option is disabled when running it as a Carbon app). And, yes, running OS X 10.4.11 (regular, not server). Quote from: Bolkonskij Guys, how about adding it to the Mac OS 9 Lives page? That'd be the place for it and you could link to it from the Garden. Yes, I agree! Love the new design btw!
Last Edit: July 18, 2024, 19:03 by garambo
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garambo
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16 MB Posts: 29 System 7 Newcomer!
Reply #55 on: July 19, 2024, 13:23
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Added a guide with screenshots on my website, thought it might be helpful (modern browser required): https://garambo.it/posts/2024-07-19-classilla-build @lauland I can make a PDF version we can include in the source code
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lauland
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512 MB Posts: 674 Symtes 7 Mewconer!
Reply #56 on: July 20, 2024, 06:18
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@garambo, seriously well done! Far far nicer than anything I could've put together!
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Jatoba
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256 MB Posts: 270 System 9 Newcomer!
Reply #57 on: July 20, 2024, 08:42
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@garambo This is great stuff, well above the presentation bar we usually settle for. A PDF version of this that can be opened under Mac OS 9 would be magnificent. I agree to including such a PDF with the source if the source is worked upon. EDIT: Quote from: garambo [...] (modern browser required): https://garambo.it/posts/2024-07-19-classilla-build Heh, I guess Classilla 9.3.4b + (Crypto Ancienne 2.2 + Power MachTen 5.0.5) is a "modern browser" already. Works and looks great.
Last Edit: July 20, 2024, 08:52 by Jatoba
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Knezzen
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Administrator 512 MB Posts: 608 Village idiot
Reply #58 on: July 21, 2024, 11:20
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Great work everyon!  Quote from: Bolkonskij Guys, how about adding it to the Mac OS 9 Lives page? That'd be the place for it and you could link to it from the Garden. The Garden isn't really made for such kind of tutorials / "know how" articles and such. I'm sure Knezzen would love to give you a hand and you can easily embed images and stuff too. Yes please! I would make a great addition.
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lauland
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512 MB Posts: 674 Symtes 7 Mewconer!
Reply #59 on: July 21, 2024, 20:33
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My build under MacOS X, still only at 400mhz: It finished, but took over 4 hours...yes, slower than on the 7600. I am going to put the dual G4 board back in it and try again just to see. Don't think I did anything silly, but also not sure why it was so slow. If I have time, I'll do a "from scratch" build and see if that is better. I do want to stress: I did not see anything about CVS or any attempts to pull during any of my countless MacOS 9 or MacOS X build attempts. I don't know why @garambo and I have had different experiences there. He knows his stuff, and has clearly pointed out where it does this in the script. Why it never did it to me, I don't know, but I have some residual thoughts it'd be nice to hammer it out and see if we can eliminate that step from his instructions. It would make it a lot easier for less experienced folks. ---- SheepShaver: I've found if you change the Linker from "Java Linker" to "None" in the _MRJPlugin.mcp in mozilla/plugin/oji/MRJ/plugin the build process will complete. But on two different machines the resulting app would hang on load. May try again from scratch since this was just a continuation of my previous attempts so might have something cattywampus... The trick is you can't do this ahead of starting the an initial build because the .mcp file is generated somewhere in the middle of the build process...so you need to let it get to the point where it hangs due to MRJ and THEN tweak the project...bit of a pain... ...but an amazing insight in that the code in the build scripts that creates the .mcp projects on the fly from .xml files is there and works very well. The implication is that you could substitute a different (older) version of CodeWarrior and it might just generate valid projects for it...whether they'd compile or not is a different question...but this makes an m68k version of Classilla a lot less work than I'd thought...at least setting up something that'd TRY to build... (You'd just need to modify the .xml files ahead of time). ----- But...I believe I am completely burned out on Classilla, and have served my purpose injecting a least a little more life into it. Others can pick up the torch if they are so disposed. There's a lot of things I'd love to TRY, like seeing if we could get it running on System 7, etc, but if I'm involved in things like that, I won't be blazing the trails. I'm inclined to leave the other things I mentioned above as an "exercise for the reader" (SheepShaver, MacOS X, CVS, and anything involving the .xml/.mcp project files). But, as I've said, you can count on me to help if there are efforts. I'd been planning on tackling TenFourFox at some point, and that might be next on my TODO list, but at the same time, I don't think it's as in as sorry a state as Classilla was (is?) so if I give it a try it might "just build" with no gotchas at all for me to find and warn people about...so nothing to do really. So, on to whatever my next project may be...as alway, open to suggestions, looking to help others, willing to try things to show they are possible or make them simpler, interested in ports of just about anything...(just make sure it isn't something related to web browsers, please!)
Last Edit: July 21, 2024, 20:35 by lauland
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