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| Author | Any (former) Power Mac 7500 / 7600 owners here? (Read 60318 times) | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Bolkonskij
Administrator 1024 MB  Posts: 2023 
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on: November 02, 2023, 16:41
I always liked both models as what appeared to be rugged middle-class Macs. I'm actually thinking about getting either one of them as a System 7 machine. I've done some research for the models in the obvious places (Low End Mac, etc.) but I wonder if any of you own one? If so, I'd be interested in how you perceive the performance? Did you have any issues with them? Anything to watch out? (they don't use the dreaded 4V battery from the Performas, do they? |
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ovalking
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128 MB  Posts: 199
Reply #1 on: November 02, 2023, 20:37
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I've got a 7500, and I'd rate it as worth considering. On the plus side are the Audio & Video in/out ports. You've got 3 PCI slots and ethernet too. It's quite easy to work on inside (unlike my 8500), and there's room for an extra HD. On the downside is the sluggish performance with the stock 601 CPU. A 604e or G3 is strongly recommended. Mine has a 200MHz card from an 8600. It's handy these CPU cards being compatible with the 75/76/73/85/86/95/9600 range. RAM too. It's also a rather hefty machine with a footprint too big for my desk. So I haven't used this one for a while. It used to crash a bit more than average, but recall no issues with the standard 3.6V battery. Interestingly the motherboard is very similar to the 8600, but the power supply connections are different.
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cballero
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1024 MB Posts: 1176 System 7, today and forever
Reply #2 on: November 02, 2023, 21:05
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And that's the best way to describe them! They were the middle-class Macs to get the job done without breaking the bank too much but still a pretty penny when they came out compared to other computers of the time  most of their owners, like Ovalking, really did (and do) enjoy those Macs, too!The precursors to those two models were very underpowered on purpose, especially the 68k versions like the IIvx and IIvi. Apple kept bumping up the specs until it reached those two and they came with quite a nice PPC performance upgrade. I am enjoying my Beige Mac which shares some similarities like the case design, although to get the System 7 look-and-feel, I do use Kaleidoscope to remove the more laggy Platinum OS 8 theme and enjoy all of the S7 goodness and it works like a charm!  I used a IIvi on the 68k side and it was just awful as well as the Centris/Quadra 950, which was a much better 68k Mac model. I really enjoyed my Quadra 630 though!  I actually ended-up with a Performa 6400 and PPC Powerbooks when I jumped from my 68k Macs, that and a slightly higher-specced PM 6500 may been my only non-Powerbook PPC Macs actually  although I too briefly enjoyed a PM 8500, too! 
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mac-cellar
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128 MB Posts: 176 Gotta love System 7
Reply #3 on: November 02, 2023, 21:20
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Long ago, I had a 7600 for a while. Solid and sturdy. Very easy to work in with the "outrigger" interior - though I do wonder if the hinges on the upswinging section have aged well. There were a plethora of possible upgrades and add-ons and a healthy RAM ceiling. I think they are rather versatile for today's retro uses too - a relatively stock configuration would still do pretty well in System 7.5 or 7.6, but the potential for radical upgrades opens up new possibilities.
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MTT
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256 MB Posts: 394 SSW7 Oldtimer
Reply #4 on: November 03, 2023, 06:27
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@Bolkonskij: I would ignore the 7500 and instead look on finding either a 7600 200MHz model, and not mentioned by you, a 7300 200MHz model. Both are the same form factor (almost identical specs) and both have the same 604e CPU. In fact the entire 7300 range, 166MHz - 200MHz have the 604e CPU, whereas only the 7600/200 model has the 604e. Oh, and no problem with the battery as its the good 3.6v kind (although I did have a good workaround for that wretched 4.5v alkaline brick kind as found in some Macs). AAUI 10Mbit ethernet on board, I guess a faster PCI enet card would be a consideration there. Good luck and have deep pockets, I'm seeing 7600/200 sellers asking Au$1000+ on eBay here for this model (Australia). @cballero: I too have a beige G3, a beautiful Mac, but the time has arrived for me to retire it. I've gone as far as to unplug it... It's damned hard to give up on though... My G4 Mac mini has been the deciding factor. It does everything the beige could do, with the exception of read/writing to 800k floppy media -1.4MB media is no problem though, with a USB floppy drive. You had a 6500 too? This is one Mac that I would like to own. I have the motherboard for a 6500/300... I've been hoping to see a dead 6500 come up for sale on eBay, to put it into, but 10 years on...
Last Edit: November 03, 2023, 06:31 by MTT
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cballero
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1024 MB Posts: 1176 System 7, today and forever
Reply #5 on: November 03, 2023, 16:51
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That's right, MTT, the 7500 had a first-gen 601 processor just like it's brother the 7100 from the same year I think! And yes, I love the ability to go from the very first Mac OS 8 all the way up to the last Mac OS 9 version on my G3 desktop, plug in older SCSI and ADB as well as newer Firewire external drives: it has really let me play with both sides of the fence fast enough. And my biggest regret was letting go of my PM 6500 to family (only after stressing that their kids needed something to go online) who after using it a while simply got rid of it (I don't want to think about it too much, but I think they threw it away, fully working, too) without letting me know, 'hey, we're done with it' or 'it didn't fit our needs, do you want it back?' (I just hope they didn't get rid of it immediately and rather got a little fun out of it before they sent it on its sad way) but we live and learn, hindsight is really 20/20; I'm thinking that they must have thought I sent them a clunker I just had laying around so I likely didn't even want it back, sigh.. 
Last Edit: November 03, 2023, 17:04 by cballero
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Bolkonskij
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Administrator 1024 MB Posts: 2023
Reply #6 on: November 05, 2023, 20:15
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Thank you everybody for taking the time to answer, especially but not exclusively those with first hand experience on the model. I'm actually not scared by the "slow" 601 CPU but looking for something in between a Mac IIci and a Power Mac 8600 power-wise. A true middle-class System 7 champion. Either one of the two seems like a good one, but a 7600 (120 Mhz or 132 Mhz version) might indeed be a good choice - if I can find one. (that's usually the limitation these days ...) Also good point about the size of the box. I may be underestimating it and need to check if it'd fit on the desk.
Last Edit: November 05, 2023, 20:34 by Bolkonskij
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Knezzen
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Administrator 512 MB Posts: 608 Village idiot
Reply #7 on: November 05, 2023, 20:39
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I have owned a beige G3 desktop and I have to agree that it's a bit big for a normal size desk nowadays. It's truly from the era when a desk had to accomodate a CRT as well. I have spent a lot of time with a 7600 and they are nice machines. Why not go with a pre-iMac all-in-one type of Mac for that true home computer feeling?
Last Edit: November 06, 2023, 10:47 by Knezzen
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MTT
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256 MB Posts: 394 SSW7 Oldtimer
Reply #8 on: November 06, 2023, 01:32
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Beige G3 desktops... I've owned 2 or 3. First thing I do with them is move their innards (except the PSU) into a 2nd hand PC's ATX mid-sized tower case. That, and add a (PCI) Rage 128 card, which also works well with Beige G3 hardware. I'm not a fan of big fat boxes taking up limited desktop space, and the Beige G3 is the only Mac model (I believe) that's 100% compatible with ATX PSUs. If only they could run 7.6 and not 8+
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wove
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1024 MB Posts: 1363
Reply #9 on: November 06, 2023, 02:38
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Ohhh someone mentioning a G3 power supply The last Mac I got at a school auction was a G3 AIO, the "Molar Mac". I loved that machine. I put a Zip drive in it, upgraded the CD to a DVD/CDRW combo drive, upped the processor to a G4 450. It came with the media input personality card and I added a combo firewire/usb/(SATA?) card. That was one fine machine. Maybe it was all the upgrades that did it in? In any event the power supply went out on it. Generally when something breaks down and I can not fix it, I get rid of it, but I was really fond of that machine and it still sets dead in the corner of the room. I would not at all mind sorting out the power supply problem.I did not know that an ATX power supply worked with beige G3s. I am sure it would not fit inside the case, but perhaps I could rig up some power brick sort of solution. Do you per chance have a URL with more info on ATX power supplies and G3? This could prove to be a very worthwhile winter project.
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MTT
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256 MB Posts: 394 SSW7 Oldtimer
Reply #10 on: November 06, 2023, 06:36
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@wove: On the logic board of a Beige G3, near the CUDA switch at the left-rear corner of the motherboard, is where the Power Supply Jumper Block is located (J28). This is a tiny block of two pairs of jumper pins marked as J28, and one of the sets of pins will be covered by a single jumper. For the Mini tower, the jumper location is marked PS/2. Typically a desktop Mac would have the jumper set on the opposite side of this (marked "Mac"). To turn a Beige G3 desktop model into a Beige G3 Mini tower (and be able to use an ATX PSU), all you needed to do was move the jumper across onto the PS/2 pins. It really is that simple. But (at a guess) I think that you will have a problem here with your all in one G3, even if the logic board is the same as what's found in the Beige desktop and MT G3s. And that would be the PSU inside the "Molar Mac" would also need to deliver power to the internal CRT. Which I would think is not something the ATX PSU could provide. It's a lot easier if you want to use an ATX PSU with the DT & MT models as they don't have that internal display to consider. The displays they access get their power independently, direct from a power outlet.
Last Edit: November 06, 2023, 07:01 by MTT
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Bolkonskij
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Administrator 1024 MB Posts: 2023
Reply #11 on: November 06, 2023, 08:35
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Let me bring our discussion back to the 7500 / 7600 by asking how difficult it'd be to mod an ATX PSU for the 7500 / 7600? It's probably one of those parts one should change in time to keep these machines happily running.
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MTT
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256 MB Posts: 394 SSW7 Oldtimer
Reply #12 on: November 06, 2023, 23:09
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WRT ATX to Mac conversions... There used to be this great DIY resource, called Accelerate Your Mac! - It still exists, but articles from the early 2Ks that were more relevant to older equipment, have mostly since vanished. A pity, because they can still be useful today. Thankfully, the WA has kept copies (and pics): Putting an ATX Power Supply in an 8600 or 9600 - This perhaps could also apply to 7300 - 7600s. 7500 to PC ATX Case Conversion - Why not go the full Monty? Dan Calhoun's 8500 to PC ATX Case Conversion - Got your Hacksaw and Dremel handy? Converting a Beige G3 Desktop to an ATX Tower - This one and the next are where I found the hints for my G3 Desktop conversions. How I Built an ATX Case Beige G3 - Although I never struck the same issues as reported here, my conversions were a simple mod to the "Personality Card", install logic board and start using. B&W G3 to ATX Case Conversion - These next two are more complicated than the Beige G3 conversions, and I couldn't see myself swapping the eye candy B/W and Sawtooth cases for a generic ATX case. But I've included their links FYI, anyway. G4 (AGP/Sawtooth) to ATX case Conversion -------- As mentioned, the Beige G3 DT is more or less a straight swap and use. All others require some degree of mechanical aptitude with no fear of wire cutters and soldering irons, etc. Of the above, I think Dan Calhoun's "8500 to PC ATX Case Conversion" is the most elegant and professional (see his screenshots). He even put the whole rig on a slide-out tray for ease of access. Amazing.
Last Edit: November 07, 2023, 18:46 by Knezzen
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Bolkonskij
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Administrator 1024 MB Posts: 2023
Reply #13 on: November 07, 2023, 13:03
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Wow, a lot of links to plough throw...thanks MTT! The first link looks very interesting, I need to dig deeper. The other links are rather...shocking? Dumping a beautifully designed Apple case to move it's components into a soulless PC ATX tower sounds like a terrible creation. A FrankenMac. Is there no dignity left in this world? Could it be worse? Next time someone might even come up with the idea of running Mac OS on a tablet ... *grins_and_runs*
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Knezzen
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Administrator 512 MB Posts: 608 Village idiot
Reply #14 on: November 07, 2023, 18:48
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Wayback Machine and archive.org in general doesn't enforce https, so I edited your links so they are viewable on older machines, MTT. Hope that's alright A Franken-Mac can be quite fun though, Bolkonskij
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