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| Author | System 7.6 on a clamshell? (Read 20995 times) | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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hot_snot
2 MB  Posts: 2 System 7 Newcomer! 
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on: February 23, 2023, 11:36
Hi everyone! Hoping someone could help me out. Is it possible to run System 7.6 on a Clamshell mac? It's currently running OS9.2. Seeing it has the same processor architecture I thought it might be possible. Thanks 
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cballero
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1024 MB Posts: 1176 System 7, today and forever
Reply #1 on: February 23, 2023, 15:18
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Mac OS 8.1 might be slightly more possible compared to Mac OS 7.6.1, but Mac OS 8.5.1 would be closest to the mark.. but if your already aiming at that Mac OS, then I would simply go with Mac OS 8.6 since is it's 8.5.1's updated twin and the the original Clamshell iBook's OS that it came with. The reason I started with Mac OS 8.1 as a possibility was because that one's like Mac OS 7.6.1's more updated twin and all of the Macs just the year before the first Clamshell iBook (1999) came out with Mac OS 8.0 and 8.1 preinstalled in 1998, but 8.6 and conceivably 8.5.1 would still be better/more feasible candidates for a Clamshell iBook due to how similar they both are and the leap between 8.1 and 8.5 was a significant one for the Mac OS.
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Neal_SE30
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256 MB Posts: 401 System 7 Newcomer!
Reply #2 on: February 23, 2023, 22:03
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Which processor is it in the clamshell? Powerpc yes? 8.1 isn’t bad, i found 8.6 a bit more bloated on my 6200 with the 75mhz processor and 16mb ram. Neal
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68040
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512 MB Posts: 950 68k - thy kingdom come, thy will be done !
Reply #3 on: February 23, 2023, 22:06
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8.1 rocks! 
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cballero
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1024 MB Posts: 1176 System 7, today and forever
Reply #4 on: February 24, 2023, 00:22
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Indeed it does, 68040! On anything G3 that can run Mac OS 8.1, it's a solid performer and is the closest thing to Mac OS 7.6.1 you can get. With that in mind, I'm not sure how many newer G3 Macs could actually 'unofficially' run it if their preinstalled OS was 8.5 and higher. If that becomes the issue, then maybe turning-off any unneeded system extensions in 8.5.1/8.6 may be the closest you could get to a simpler OS. As far as the Mac OS System 7 skin, the built-in theme control panel (Appearance Extension I believe) can re-skin the OS to the 'Mac OS 7' look-and-feel, too 
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wove
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1024 MB Posts: 1363
Reply #5 on: February 24, 2023, 02:46
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I was/am quite fond of themes. My personal favorite was DrawingBoard. Someone made a Drawing Board theme for OS X and I used it up through 10.4. I am using DrawingBoard theme in OS9 right now under qemu using the UTM app on Monterey. Monterey is up and running on a Thinkpad T580.
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Bolkonskij
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Administrator 1024 MB  Posts: 2023
Reply #6 on: February 24, 2023, 08:38
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Perhaps we should go back to discuss hot_snot's (welcome! ) question: Officially it was released with 8.6 (1st gen) and OS 9 (2nd gen), so none of the iBook G3 Clamshells was officially supporting 7.6. (and not 8.1 either, for that matter) That said, it would be an amazing 7.6 machine though. Imagine the speed, coolness and compatibility. Maybe a hacking attempt might get 7.6 to run on the Clamshell, as seen on other hardware (writing this from OS9 hacked onto a Mac Mini G4!). The ATI Radeon Mobility graphics may complicate things as I'm not sure there's a driver for 7.6. You'll likely have to wait for someone with passion to undertake this adventure. The folks found at Tinker Different (modern browser needed) may be the kind of people for that.
Last Edit: February 24, 2023, 08:41 by Bolkonskij
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Knezzen
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Administrator 512 MB Posts: 608 Village idiot
Reply #7 on: February 24, 2023, 10:13
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I'm working on USB support in 7.6.1. It's the biggest show stopper right now. Without it, there's no mouse (trackpad) or keyboard support on machines without ADB, so the iBook's are a lost cause right now.
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Bolkonskij
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Administrator 1024 MB Posts: 2023
Reply #8 on: February 24, 2023, 10:28
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That's true, another big hurdle. Though I vaguely remember reading that a lot of Apple's G3 laptops actually used ADB for their trackpads internally. Which led to ADB support being there even for a lot of OSX PPC versions. Do I remember that right? If so, at least the trackpad might not be a lost cause.
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Knezzen
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Administrator 512 MB Posts: 608 Village idiot
Reply #9 on: February 24, 2023, 18:13
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That's true, I'm not sure where the breaking point for that is though. Regardless, there's much needed functionality that needs to be added before 7.6.1 is remotely usable on a Clamshell iBook.
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wove
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1024 MB Posts: 1363
Reply #10 on: February 24, 2023, 19:01
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The clam shell (toilet seat) iBook does indeed have an adb keyboard and mouse. It has always been assumed that the best shot on 7.6.1 on a G3 laptop would be the Kanga/Powerbook 3500, which is at its heart a Powerbook 3400.
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cballero
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1024 MB Posts: 1176 System 7, today and forever
Reply #11 on: February 25, 2023, 03:02
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So funny story.. a member of the old S7T forums named Defor managed to get Mac OS 7.6.1 to boot a G3 Kanga back in '09, one of Dan Palka's (the S7T founder) favorite Powerbooks! Here's that link, enjoy! https://system7today.com/forums/index.php?topic=2326.msg8269 And as an owner of a G3 Beige Desktop that can run Mac OS 8.1, I'd also love to have my first-gen G3 Mac be able to run that true Classic at the end of the System 7 era, Mac OS 7.6.1! But maybe the folks like at Tinker Different may have had a go at cracking this Holy Grail, at least on a Mac like the Kanga! In that old thread, I even imagined how hard it would be to turn a Powerbook 3400c into a Kanga Powerbook 3500!
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hot_snot
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2 MB Posts: 2 System 7 Newcomer!
Reply #12 on: February 25, 2023, 10:24
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Thanks for the advice everyone, I might give 8.1 a crack. Interesting post about Defor getting System 7.6.1 to boot on a G3. I can't wait for the day when Apple release the source code. They just released the Lisa sourcecode after 40 years. Considering that System 7 was released in 1991, we can expect the System 7 source code to be available in 2031
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Old Mac Geezer
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64 MB Posts: 112
Reply #13 on: August 01, 2023, 20:59
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I'm just wondering how this worked out for the OP, because I was always under the impression that you couldn't downgrade Macs to versions older than the one that they originally shipped with. A clamshell iBook would have arrived too late to ship with any version of System 7. In 1999, it would have been the end of the MacOs 8 era, and MacOs 9 would release late in the year.
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