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| Author | An important message from Dan (Read 115335 times) | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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dpaanlka
1024 MB  Posts: 1646 
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on: August 20, 2016, 21:48
The System 7 Today Forums Will Be Permanently Closed October 1st, 2016 Please read below for the reasons and where we go from here… Over ten years ago I started System 7 Today from my Bradley University dorm room. Back then I was still actively using Mac OS 7.6.1 on a daily basis using a PowerBook 1400c/166. I was also an aspiring web developer, using System 7 Today as a platform to learn to code. This was an era before smartphones and tablets, before HTML5 and CSS3, and before TLS encryption became the norm, not the exception. It was an exciting time and I learned a lot along the way. Later in college I had the opportunity to take control of decades-old Info-Mac websites, which the previous owner was looking to shut down. I decided to take what I learned from System 7 Today and create a new online portal to encompass all Apple products. I worked very hard with help from some friends from System 7 Today to integrate all Info-Mac content going back to 1984 into this new, database-powered and searchable website. I’ve also tried nursing a new community that wasn’t specific to System 7, although that part hasn’t been as much of a success. Nonetheless, Info-Mac has been my primary focus for the past 8 years. After graduating college I started a career and interests have taken me elsewhere. I rarely stop by System 7 Today anymore. I no longer own any functioning System 7 machines (although I do still have Mac OS 9 around on a Kanga G3). Because of this, the System 7 Today codebase has languished. But this alone is not the only motive for my decision — after all, why can’t I just let System 7 Today continue on, even without my involvement? There are a couple critical reasons for this which I will explain below. The technical problem. System 7 Today is powered by phpBB version 2, updates and support for which ended long ago. Since then, there have been two major versions of phpBB released, and in the next couple of months they are about to release another. This means that System 7 Today’s core backend software will be 3 major versions behind. It’s actually even worse than that, because System 7 Today is not even the latest version of 2.x — it’s several bugfix versions behind there too. When I first created System 7 Today I made it a goal that the website be accessible in browsers that actually ran on Mac OS 7. To achieve this goal required heavy modifications of the phpBB 2 codebase. This turned out to be a huge mistake, because every update to phpBB wound up being a tedious and frustrating process, and it only got worse and worse as subsequent updates took phpBB further and further away from the version I originally modified to create System 7 Today. Eventually, I stopped trying. phpBB 3 marked a huge change in the platform, the largest update ever. I tried on several occasions to sit down and figure out how to migrate System 7 Today completely over to phpBB 3. Each attempt ended in failure and reverting back to phpBB 2. Finally I stopped trying, as I no longer have the time to dedicate to this like I did as a college student. System 7 Today is incredibly obsolete and will never be updated. Ever. The security problem. Being one of the most (possibly the most) popular online forum software, phpBB is subject to an incredible amount of attacks from would-be hackers and thieves. Whenever a security vulnerability is discovered (whether by the phpBB team's diligent effort or by a successful exploit by a hacker) phpBB rushes out an update to close whatever security hole exists. System 7 Today is missing 6-7 years of these updates. On top of this, System 7 Today is served to your browser in plain text. This was the norm in 2006, but in 2016 secure TLS encryption is quickly becoming the standard across the entire Internet. System 7 Today will never have this, and I have no doubt in the next few years browsers and search engines will begin throwing error messages when you try to access System 7 Today. The continued use of System 7 Today poses a security risk to all of us. The usability problem. System 7 Today was designed entirely without CSS, in old-school HTML using <table> objects for layout. I tried exactly mimicking Appleâ's late 90s website design, down to the color, fonts and element positioning. I did a really great job, actually! Unfortunately in 2016, System 7 Today is usability nightmare. It's not pleasant to use on ANY device, smartphone, tablet, or desktop” quite a feat in bad design! Regretfully, this will never be updated either. The solution. At this moment I find myself juggling the management of two large forums, in addition to my day job and all the other stuff I do in life. One of these forums is completely 100% up-to-date with the latest software, security and usability standards. The other is not. Shutting down System 7 Today is both a difficult and at the same time an easy choice to make. I value all of your contributions and conversations over the past 10 years, and I don't want to lose that sense of community we’ve all built. If you haven't already, I would like to invite you all to register at Info-Mac, and continue the conversations over at the Vintage Macs section specifically. We're the same people, just transitioned over to a website that doesn't suck. If you haven't visited Info-Mac in awhile, you'll find the website is fast, secure, and works great on Macs, iPhones, iPads¦ and even Androids and Windows devices! It also has a lot more features that come with any modern phpBB board that were never enabled on System 7 Today. I know for some of you, this will be the end of the road and we won’t see you over at Info-Mac, and that’s totally okay too. It’s your choice in the end, but I hope more of you will come than don’t! Starting October 1st you will no longer be able to post new topics or reply to existing topics at System 7 Today. New users will not be able to create accounts either. I will let the website remain as an archive, however visitors will be encouraged to head over to Info-Mac to post any new discussions. Feel free to share any concerns, rage, comments or questions you may have here in this discussion. Hope to see you around! - Dan |
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Last Edit: February 10, 2021, 10:31 by Bolkonskij
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ovalking
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128 MB Posts: 199
Reply #1 on: August 21, 2016, 10:37
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They do say all good things come to an end. Thank you for your efforts of running the website over the years. I appreciate it must be hard to continue if your heart is no longer in it, but I'm pleased S7T will be retained as an archive. I was confused by your comments about the S7T interface design though. I've always found it pretty good whatever machine I use, and it is very quick. Unlike info-mac. I've just registered, but it was hard work - it's really difficult to read that captcha! It's slow, there's far too much white space, and it doesn't seem to even respond to any system 7 web browser. Good luck with your future projects.
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feeef
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64 MB Posts: 106 
Reply #2 on: August 22, 2016, 10:23
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Thank you very much for what you have done! Thanks to this website I managed to give a new life to my PM 9500 with System 7 and managed to even do some professional work with it until last year. I was doing traditional 2D animations with it. I know that this computer will never be a computer for the Internet (well, it has never been built for that purpose anyway) but it is still a very capable machine for visual creations. I have now made a full move to free software but I still love to use my old macs. Again, thank you for all your hard work with this website and forum! I am glad the website itself will still exist. It is indeed a great archive with a lot of great info!
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reukiodo
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16 MB Posts: 22 
Reply #3 on: August 29, 2016, 05:57
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Thanks for the site. Aside from security concerns, I would prefer to leave S7T running as-is. How much maintenance does it take to run this? Are you planning to migrate the content over to InfoMac or just let it archive itself here?
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reukiodo
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16 MB Posts: 22
Reply #4 on: August 29, 2016, 05:58
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I tend to agree with OvalKing... InfoMac is both ugly AND slow.
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massi13
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64 MB Posts: 83
Reply #5 on: September 02, 2016, 11:40
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Thank you for all the times i need help, for upgrade my experience in system 7, your work is incredible!! Max
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cballero
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1024 MB Posts: 1176 System 7, today and forever
Reply #6 on: September 15, 2016, 16:32
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Dan, Over the years, we have appreciated you more than you will ever know!  All of the love you've put into this place is admirable, something Steve and the Mac evangelists over the years built for the rest of us to enjoy and make our own. Back in the day Macs ruled because of their uniqueness and creativity. Its operating system helped launch so much great software, which amazingly is still found online today here and there, including this great site. You were one of very few that cared enough to launch this outpost for those who wanted to think a little different: that new didn't necessarily mean better. I have to agree with you, less and less of us use the Classic Mac OS, but I remember when I set up many families with little resources with excellent educational games on these older macs for parents running off CD-ROMs, and I fired up many graphic design projects using older Adobe software ages past its contemporaries. Many of these CDs were sold at the dolar stores with these older Macs/Windows games, unbelievable! I bought and gave away hundreds of those games when they were available. I think we all, as die-hards that we are, held out for such a long time simply because it was fun. I still remember using a my first Mac 9600 running system 7 in '97 or '98, it was a real powerhouse back then! I don't know if you remember when I set-up a call center with your help in 2005 running several 3400c Powerbooks running as clients to Mac OSX servers. E-mail (which was also also web-based), a Filemaker database and word processors were all configured on Mac OS 7.6 on those Macs! And I'm sure you know this, but in Wikipedia's System 7.6 page, System7today.com is the very first external link listed! That speaks admirably to your devoted efforts to continue making this version of the Mac operating system relevant on a huge number of older Macs. And don't forget, a lot of folks use older versions of the Mac OS in emulation as well. For me, there are simply too many programs I still like to fire up on occasion that have no present-day equivalent. We all will miss this as our personal go-to spot online for the real Classic Macs, it's been incredible to see the forums run this long my friend! You and these forums have been a valuable resource to this legacy in Macintosh history. Long live System7Today forums.. at least in our hearts! Thanks Dan. Your friend always, Craig Ps. Thanks for deciding to keep the site online for posterity!!!
Last Edit: February 18, 2021, 15:37 by cballero
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Old Mac Geezer
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64 MB Posts: 112
Reply #7 on: September 17, 2016, 21:22
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It doesn't make sense for anyone to be going online with a System 7 machine anymore and I am sure everyone here has at least one machine that can handle the modern internet. I don't see why you can't just upgrade to the latest version rather than shut down the forums for good. This site is too good a resource for older tech info about these machines to just let it die. System 7 was a great OS in it's day, but there's nothing wrong with admitting that there are things it can't do anymore. To me, anyway, if it comes to the choice of upgrading the software and keeping a good thing going or shutting it down because obsolete browsers can't handle it anymore, then dumping support for obsolete browsers would be the way to go.
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Old Mac Geezer
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64 MB Posts: 112
Reply #8 on: September 17, 2016, 21:27
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Quote from: "reukiodo" Thanks for the site. The problem with leaving it running as-is is most likely one of security. It makes no sense to leave it up as-is if hackers are taking it down on a daily basis. It becomes too much work to keep it online at that point. My opinion is update the software to the latest version and drop support for obsolete browsers. Who uses a System 7 capable machine as their primary computer anymore, anyway? Everyone has a newer PC, Mac, tablet or smart phone capable of handling the modern internet with ease (or should by this time) and it will be a lot more secure.
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reukiodo
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16 MB Posts: 22
Reply #9 on: September 20, 2016, 08:51
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Any chance you'd let someone else take on the task of running the site?
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blackangel
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16 MB Posts: 22
Reply #10 on: September 27, 2016, 05:14
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Hi Dan, not sure if you are one of the contributors to info-mac, but I'm wondering whether all the software/games can be transferred to info-mac if they aren't already there, especially the ATI-7000 working on under 7.x, as I managed to get it going under 7.5.5, and it still rocks on a so called old 7200/90!
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cballeron
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16 MB Posts: 16
Reply #11 on: October 01, 2016, 05:46
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Dan, Your great efforts to the system 7 user community will always be remembered and cherished. Farewell for now from these cozy forums my friends! Cb
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