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| Author | Powerful computing on a budget (Read 39412 times) | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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PPC750
4 MB  Posts: 7 
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on: March 02, 2011, 03:34
I'm interested in getting a System 7-capable Mac. I'd like it to get a fairly high-end PowerPC machine (preferably a G3, but at least a 603e or better.) Now this being a less-than-100%-useful hobby, I've already resigned myself to burning a bit of money on this.  Still, I'd like to get the most bang for my buck -- so I'd like to get advice on what systems the folks here would recommend.Features I'm looking for: - upgradeable without spending a fortune - no major reliability issues - replacement parts are available (so no TAM) - can run Mac OS 7.6 or earlier (the more versions of System 7 it supports the better) Hopefully that narrows the range of machines a bit. If not... well... what machines do you guys like? Cheers, Rob |
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Lichen Software
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128 MB Posts: 252 
Reply #1 on: March 02, 2011, 04:26
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I think that any machine that will run 7.6 or lower is Pre G3. Both the Beige G3 and the Kanga Powerbook require system 8 per Low End Mac. I think these were the first G3's in their respective classes. That being said there are G3 accelerators for many of the machines - probably via ebay. Sonnet is the best make if you can find it. Anything running a 333 MHz G3 or up will run nicely. 400 Mhz runs pretty much equivalent to a 1.2 GHz G4 on tiger. There are up to 1 GHz accelerators around for these machines. They fly. For the tower machines on newer pre G3 models, you can get pci adapters to put in a modern hard drive or failing that AfterTheMac.com sells larger SCSI drives. I have a 50 Gb SCSI in my 7100. I am not sure if there are drivers for the pci cards that will work with system 7. I am sure someone here would know. The older models like the 7100 were Nubus. It is harder to find things for these. Going to the Powerbooks, PB 1400 had accelerators available ( hard to find now). It also has an IDE drive instead of SCSI. You can also use a CF card in a pcmcia adapter. It is limited in the amount of ram it will take to 64 Mb. You can also use the second pcmcia slot for a wireless card. There is lots of room to play. I suggest going to both Low End Mac and EveryMac.com and looking at the specs of the various machines to see what they have. PCI slots/IDE hard drives PCMCIA slots Accelerators - were they made for that machine RAM capability Ethernet/wireless VGA monitor capability These are all things I would look for.
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PPC750
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4 MB Posts: 7
Reply #2 on: March 02, 2011, 04:41
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Ah, sorry, I should have clarified: when I mentioned a G3 I was referring to a system that could be upgraded to one. Apart from that it seems like I should look for one of the non-NuBus desktops with an eye towards upgrading via an accelerator card, no? I'm not concerned about storage space -- I've got a NAS with tons of space, so really I only need the internal drive for booting and apps. Hopefully that should help cut down on the cost... (Thanks for a very informative reply, BTW.)
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Lichen Software
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128 MB Posts: 252
Reply #3 on: March 02, 2011, 14:39
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1. Do an Ebay search for Sonnet under computers and networking. That will tell you what is available. You need an accelerator that is for a model 9600 or prior. It will also give your various prices for the different accelerators available. You can also do the same search for Newer Tech and Vimage, but Sonnets were the most compatible with everything. 2. Nubus is an older architecture so you will (a) have some problems getting things and (b) get less bang for your accelerator buck. However, that being said, you can probably pick up a 7100 for next to nothing and an accelerator for about $35.00. With older machines like that, also try to purchase with the RAM maxed out. RAM is hard to find for them. You will be limited for graphic displays with RBG to VGA connectors required and a limited selection of video upgrades. 3. If you are going to go into this, you might want to think about it as a similar hobby to vintage cars or in this case, making hotrods out of vintage cars. You will spend a few bucks, but all the bucks you spend will be less than the cost of a single door for a 1940 Mercury. :-) And you wll get as many hours of enjoyment. 4. I am not sure if you will be able to access your NAS storage (someone could chime in here) . Even if you can, small hard drives were one of the big problems from day one with all of this vintage of machine. I have one folder on my main Mac dedicated to Classic Software that I have found over the years. That folder is up to about 40 Gb now and still growing as I find things. Plan on upgrading the storage if economically feasible. You will enjoy the storage and the machine will run faster as the newer drives are better. Also any original drive is over 10 years old now. All hard drives fail. The only question is when. 5. A larger hard drive will also allow you to partition it. I generally do 2 Gb partitions for operating systems and then the balance for storage. Sometimes the software you can find won't run on 7.6. I have one machine with 7.6, 8.6 and 9.1 all running on it just to facilitate the programs that I run on them from time to time. 7.6 is the fastest - by far. 8.6 gets you Cassilla for web browsing. It is as modern as you can get for classic macs. I am still trying to get him to backport to 7.6 on another forum but apparently there is quite a bit involved. 9.x gets you other things depending on what you are doing. I have nothad to go that far up yet for most things. The sytem software upgrades on this site are really good and a lot of time and effort has been expended putting it together. These upgrades are also good for 8.6 - one has to check the versions. These upgrades in and of themselves make this site one of the great Mac classic resources on the net. The other software you can find and the forum information that can be gleaned here constitutes gravey on top of an already full plate.
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24bit
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64 MB Posts: 91
Reply #4 on: March 02, 2011, 15:59
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Hello, recently I realized, Sonnet is selling out its last Nubus accelerator cards for 30 bucks. Most likely I had have bought one, but they sell in North America only. If you can grab a good 7100 or alike for almost nothing, you might give this a try. http://store1.sonnettech.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_91&products_id=251 The lowest OS for PPC Nubus is 7.5.2 and 9.0.4 the highest. If you have a WinDOS box around, you could set up a free Appletalk server with PC MACLAN: http://www.softpedia.com/get/Network-Tools/Misc-Networking-Tools/PC-MACLAN.shtml That was what I did some years ago, for backing up files on a more modern drive. While looking for a vintage Mac, you might try a free 9600 (PPC604) emulated with software, called SheepShaver :-) , outperforming a G3/400 on some 2GHz Linux box. Best wishes!
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PPC750
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4 MB Posts: 7
Reply #5 on: March 02, 2011, 16:28
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Quote from: "Lichen Software" If you are going to go into this, you might want to think about it as a similar hobby to vintage cars or in this case, making hotrods out of vintage cars. You will spend a few bucks, but all the bucks you spend will be less than the cost of a single door for a 1940 Mercury. :-) And you wll get as many hours of enjoyment. Oh, absolutely. I already realize that (as far as productive computing is concerned) this is totally useless. That's why it's a hobby! I'm also coming from the world of vintage ThinkPad refurbishing, so I already am quite accustomed to everything that goes along with investing time and money into something several orders of magnitude less powerful than the average smartphone.  Quote I am not sure if you will be able to access your NAS storage (someone could chime in here) . Even if you can, small hard drives were one of the big problems from day one with all of this vintage of machine. It speaks everything from SMB to AFP to FTP. I'm not sure if Mac OS 7.6.1 can do AFP over TCP/IP, but at the very least I have FTP support for archiving little-used programs and infrequently-accessed data. Quote I have one folder on my main Mac dedicated to Classic Software that I have found over the years. That folder is up to about 40 Gb now and still growing as I find things. Plan on upgrading the storage if economically feasible. You will enjoy the storage and the machine will run faster as the newer drives are better. 40 GB! Wow. I used to be a part of a Mac abandonware project, and even when I destroyed my copy of the archives when I left I don't think I had more than 15 GB or so of material -- and that was including uncompressed ISOs of quite a few discs... Quote 8.6 gets you Cassilla for web browsing. It is as modern as you can get for classic macs. I am still trying to get him to backport to 7.6 on another forum but apparently there is quite a bit involved. I don't plan on browsing at all, so not an issue. Quote 9.x gets you other things depending on what you are doing. I have nothad to go that far up yet for most things. I've got a Wallstreet PowerBook and a beige G3 in storage that can both run 8.x-9.x if needed, so this machine won't need to be capable of anything other than 7.x (As an aside, the G3 I have is one of the few that I've used that can boot Rhapsody and the OS X DPs without issue, so I intend to hang on to it for quite some time.) Thanks for some *great* info. I suppose I should start shopping... 
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dpaanlka
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1024 MB Posts: 1646
Reply #6 on: March 02, 2011, 20:23
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Just FYI, Classilla is *never* going to be back-ported to anything. It's just the last build of Mozilla for 8.6/9.x with some bits of newer code. He's not actually building a browser from scratch.
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PPC750
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4 MB Posts: 7
Reply #7 on: March 06, 2011, 03:05
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Well I'm now the proud owner of a 8100/100. I got it quite cheaply it from a local seller, and was pleased to find that it came with an Orange PC card as an added, unadvertised bonus. Unfortunately, I can't install the Sonnet G3 upgrade yet. The existing video card is taking up the slot and I don't have an HDi45 adapter, so I can't use the integrated graphics. Once I get that sorted, I'll be well on my way to a relatively powerful System 7 box.
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Lichen Software
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128 MB Posts: 252
Reply #8 on: March 06, 2011, 13:46
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They still offer that pass through on their site. I couldn't get in to check the price. My connection seems really bad today. http://www.sonnettech.com/product/crescendo_nubus.html
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dpaanlka
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1024 MB Posts: 1646
Reply #9 on: March 06, 2011, 20:04
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$19.95 for the pass-through and $29.95 for the 400MHz G3. The 500MHz model is sold out, although they occasionally produce additional limited runs. One reason to love Sonnet.
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Lichen Software
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128 MB Posts: 252
Reply #10 on: March 06, 2011, 21:38
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I would love to see them do that with PB 1400 accelerarors. Similar prices to that I would buy 3.
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Dimitris1980
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32 MB Posts: 39
Reply #11 on: March 31, 2011, 08:18
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I bought a sonnet nubus g3 at 500 Mhz from Herb Johnson. http://www.retrotechnology.com/herbs_stuff/mac.html for my mac performa 6116. The difference in speed is very high and mac os 7.6 runs extremely fast. He has some sonnet accelerators http://www.retrotechnology.com/herbs_stuff/m_imac.html#accel .
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brownguy
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4 MB Posts: 7 
Reply #12 on: April 21, 2011, 08:04
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I bought a 8100/80 on eBay for $59.00 and spent the $$$ for the Sonnet G3 nubus upgrade and the video adapter card, (I had bought that from eBay for $5.00 with max video ram). With 7.6.1 installed I must say I was VERY pleased with the speed of this machine. I broke out all of my OS7 programs and games and they now have new life!!! The problem I now have is some games actually run too fast!!! I'll have to get online and look for G3 patches. If anyone knows a good place to get game patches and upgrades please let me know. Maybe on a torrent site maybe? Thoughts.... Dean M.
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Lichen Software
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128 MB Posts: 252
Reply #13 on: April 21, 2011, 13:10
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Now we find out how "hard core" you are: If you want to max out the memory, go here: http://eshop.macsales.com/MyOWC/Upgrades.cfm?sort=pop&model=33&type=Memory If you want to replace your puny little drive with a 50 Gb SCSI hard drive, go here: http://afterthemac.com/product.php?id=5050 Muhahahahahah
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