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| Author | what happened between system 7 and OSX ? (Read 23538 times) | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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rlawson
64 MB  Posts: 92  
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on: June 16, 2008, 04:30
Some background - I last used Macs professionally back in the sys6/7 days. Then a long stint in Unix and Windows land and now back with OSX. I have some system 7 machines that I still get useful work done on. I also have a PB 3400c that has OS 9.1 on it. I'm on a business trip and thought it'd be fun to take it along for browsing, email. However, I am *not* liking OS9. Maybe this machine is underpowered - it has 144 megs and is a PPC 603ev processor? But boy, it locks up a lot and seems pretty sluggish compared to my system 7 machines. In addition, I don't notice any substantial changes to the OS other than a lot of window-dressing. What was Apple doing during all those years - was it just the 68k -> PPC conversion ? Anyone else regulary use OS 9 and care to comment on relative performance, pros/cons versus system 7? |
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dpaanlka
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1024 MB Posts: 1646
Reply #1 on: June 16, 2008, 05:29
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System 7.6.1 is, in my experience, the most stable of the classic system software. I use Mac OS 9.1 regularly on a PowerBook G3 Kanga, and I would say that even on that G3 it feels sluggish quite often, and locks up all the time. Ditto for essentially every other system I've run OS 9 on. If the Kanga could run System 7, it would be. When I wrote the "Why System 7" page, the best way I could explain it was this: Quote Chances are, if you're doing anything that Mac OS 7.6.1 can't do, you probably should be doing it on a newer Mac OS X compatible Mac. I firmly believe that as well. The only time I use OS 9 is on a Kanga, which runs as an iTunes machine. These days I'm in Mac OS X Leopard 99% of the time, although when I originally created this site I still used System 7 a lot. I still have many System 7 machines lying around and use them often, but usually only in a capcity that relates to experimenting for this site.
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wove
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1024 MB Posts: 1363
Reply #2 on: June 16, 2008, 06:10
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OS 8 was suppose to be Copeland, however that project failed to materialize. Apple had acquired NeXT before the release of OS 8 and plans for what became OS X were underway. In the mean time Apple kept working on the System code base until the new OS was available. A great many people view OS 8 and later as simply being Mac OS 7.7. and 7.6. There were no major changes in system design and operation although there were quite a few changes. Networking improved a good deal as did virtual memory and native support for the PPC processors. While the OS 8 and OS 9 did not drop support for the PPC machines, it must be remembered that by the time OS 9 shipped Apple's flagship machines were all G4s. MacOS 9.0.4 was the last of the line released as a primary OS for Mac hardware. MacOS 9.1 was released concurrent with Mac OS X 10.0. There is a good deal of discussion about the merits of OS 9.1 and 9.2 as an independent and only OS on Mac hardware. The one thing to keep in mind though is that by the time of their release, Apple has clearly changed focus to the newer Mac OS X. OS 9 is definitely slower than OS 7.6 on any hardware that will support OS 7.6. When talking about stability one always opens a hornets nest. A great weakness of all Mac OSes prior to OS X was that it was easy to make them unstable. Extension and Control panel conflicts along with poorly designed applications could present a challenge. A distinct advantage to OS 7.6 is that first it was a very nice developed system and second good reference materials (System7Today) exist to provide guide lines for maximizing its inherent stability and improving its performance. The best OS for any hardware mostly depends on what you expect to accomplish with that system and the software you need to run to further that purpose. Mac OS 7.6 represents the culmination of System design going back to the original Mac, while Mac OS 8 and later are a march to the future. bill
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Lichen Software
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128 MB Posts: 252 
Reply #3 on: June 16, 2008, 14:27
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I have found that OS 9 is slow on anything short of a 400 MHz G3. Once you get to that speed it is very responsive. If you need some of the functions of the later clssic Mac OS's, try going back to 8.6. It is a lot lighter on an underpowered machine. Barring that, 7.6 is the way to go. I run both 7.6 and 8.6 on my 333 upgraded PB 1400. Even doing all the patches to 8.6 to speed it up, 7.6 generally runs circles around it. Note that one of the recommendations on this site is to run 7.6 with appearance manager off. Doing this gives yet another noticable speed bump. Note that most of the patches on this site for 7.6 are also valid for 8.6. The only thing that stops me from running 7.6 all the time is I confess that I like the more modern web rendering that I get with WAMCOM Mozilla. If I could get iCab 2.x to work reliably or find another browser that would render in a less retro fashion, 8.6 would probably be gone. I can't talk for system 8.5, however, I have found system 8.1 to be really unstable on any machines that I have run it on. I had originally set up this PB 1400 as a test bed with 7.6, 8.1, 8.6 and 9.0.4. 8.1 and 9.0.4 have been jettisoned. Dave
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beachycove
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16 MB Posts: 31
Reply #4 on: June 20, 2008, 02:05
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OS9 is not unstable. Some see it as the most stable of all the releases, though no doubt that can be debated endlessly. At any rate, there must be some problem with your installation, or hardware, or a software conflict somewhere involving troublesome extensions. The big differences between 7 and 9 lie in the quantity of ppc code found in the later versions, in increasing internet support, in better multiprocessing support and improved (always highly imperfect) multithreading, and in various other add-ons that came along later, including the rolling in of old but updated technologies like Remote Access and in support for entirely new technologies such as USB, Firewire, the new video cards, DVD, etc. OS9 is, however, widely regarded as too demanding for a 603e. It can stretch a slow 604 processor too, though the 604e is a much better bet for OS9. You will find that your PowerBook will run 8.5/8.6 much better, or go back lower to 7.6.1 again, but with a few of the recommended add-ons found on these pages. If it's nostalgia you want, you might as well have it in spades.
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wdurden
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16 MB Posts: 22
Reply #5 on: June 20, 2008, 18:12
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Hi all, I realize that this is offtopic for system 7 but it is relevant to the topic. I recently took an ebay acquired Lombard and with some modifications, I get excellent results with OS 9.2. I bought an Addonics CF flash card drive substitute and bought some CF cards very inexpensively directly from a HongKong ebayer and now have a silent, zippy, long battery life classic machine. I used the install software left over from one of those white ibooks I bought in 2002 that had the wonky graphics card that popped from the mainboard because the machine flexed. I find 9.2 on this machine to be very steady. I use Wamcom browser for problem sites and IE for general known renderable sites, but in general I really enjoy the machine. It is quiet, much cooler than modern machines on the lap and on the eyes... I can't go all the way back to system 7.6 for some things I like to do, and so I reside in classic 9.2 land. I really like this site, the look and feel and the information, but feel a little guilty because while I keep a classic flame burning it isn't 7.6.... Really appreciate it Dan. I do recommend the CF drive substitute for those that like tinkering .....
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rlawson
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64 MB Posts: 92
Reply #6 on: June 21, 2008, 03:07
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Interesting - would you mind posting some specs/notes on exactly what you did. I used to use an emate for writing and really loved the silence and long battery life. I've been considering an asus eee pc - but sounds like you've made a similar classic mac substitute !
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wdurden
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16 MB Posts: 22
Reply #7 on: June 24, 2008, 00:34
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The main thing is simply this dual CF-IDE adapter from addonics... http://addonics.com/products/flash_memory_reader/adeb44idecf.asp On the Lombard, it is merely a matter of flipping up the keyboard, popping the drive sled out and unplugging the harddrive and plugging this thing in instead. I bought some flash memory from an ebay vendor (abc1478963) which came directly from HongKong. The packaging was nonexistent, in a minibaggie in regular envelope which looked slightly scuffed but the flash was fine. Now there is a twist to the setup. While I was waiting for the memory to arrive my wife bought me a 4 gig flash from the local office supply. The IDE adapter is a dual adapter so it can hold two chips. The 4 gig my wife got for me locally was Sandisk Extreme III. When the adapter came with that card I could not get the computer to recognize it. However, the CF I bought from ebay was 2 GB Sandisk CF Ultra II (supposedly and according to the label). I bought it for 9.99 with 8.99 for shipping... Because I had seen in Low End Mac articles that the Flash type can make a difference, I waited until the 2 GB came. I put that in the Master level, and put the 4 GB in the slave position plugged it into the harddrive cable and started with the startup CD. Was able then to initialize both with Disk Util. from the CD ( a white i-book install CD) and then install OS 9.2 immediately thereafter. I put OS 9 on the 2 GB and I have installed 10.2 on the 4 GB disk although I honestly only use that if I need a quick fancy diagram knocked up in omniGraffle. I'm a Luddite and much prefer classic mac apps for just about everything, but OmniGraffle makes knocking out spiffy anti-aliased drop shadowy images easier than Appleworks or Aldus Superpaint. The only other thing in OS X that gives me almost as much joy is Purgatory Designs Intaglio. However, by choosing OS 9 as my main system, I can do a complete reinstall fast at any time and can keep a complete backup of everything on USB drives now, etc. There are some blessings for choosing to live frozen in time... Only missing out on the streaming video these days....
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