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| Author | OS 9 on g4 MacMini (Read 14449 times) | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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wove
1024 MB  Posts: 1363 
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on: August 30, 2022, 01:59
Just a few follow up observations. I used the image from OS9 Lives. The image on MacGarden is a .sit file and I do not have anything up and running to deal with that. On an OS X system you can select the .iso in the Finder, right click and select "Burn image to CD" and it will make a bootable CD. Oddly after a successful burn, OS X is not able to read the CD it just created, however it does boot the Mini just fine. System profiler indicates there is an AirPort card, however the AirPort setup utility does not work, saying that it cannot find an Airport Card and I am not sure why. The G4 Mini came with a DVI to HDMI adaptor which works just fine, with the monitor picking the correct resolution and displaying very nicely. The iso comes with USB Overdrive, and Classilla and a Bugdom game. Does any one know what if any differences there are between the MacGarden image and the image from OS9 Lives? I would be interested mainly if it supports AirPort. |
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Bolkonskij
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Administrator 1024 MB  Posts: 2023
Reply #1 on: August 30, 2022, 07:23
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Congrats on getting this setup going! :-) How's sound working for you? That's usually the biggest issue with OS9 on a Mac Mini. As far as I know, the Mac Garden image contains the latest ATI graphics drivers. That supposedly fixes an issue where your mouse cursor is stuck on the top left after booting, hence requiring you to reboot. There's a separate download for those drivers on that Garden page, so apply the manually. As for the Airport card, some models did not support Airport (e.g. the base 1.25 Ghz model). Which model do you have? Bear in mind OS9 never had WPA/WPA2 support, so you'd be stuck with WEP or no security at all. A nice workaround is to get one of those cheap 25$ TP-Link WLAN bridges. Little devices that catch a WLAN signal and pass that on via ethernet cable. I love mine as it gives even machines like my 8600 the flexibility to connect to any WLAN.
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MTT
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256 MB Posts: 394 SSW7 Oldtimer
Reply #2 on: October 31, 2022, 05:15
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@wove: .sit files can be extracted with the free Unarchiver, if using a modern Mac OS. Main difference between the OS9Lives and Mac Garden versions, is the MG copy uses a standard full Mac OS 9.2.2 universal install CD, while the OS9Lives version uses a pre-built System Restore mechanism. Which is why you get some additional non-standard installed components like Classilla and USB Overdrive etc, with the OS9Lives version. Re Bolkonskij's comment: "separate download for those drivers on that Garden page, so apply the manually." Not quite. The separate updated ATI drivers, are intended to be used by anyone who had previously installed OS 9.2.2 using the earlier OS build that was on that page (and can't be bothered installing the whole OS all over again). The latest OS installer (build 2, Rev 2), includes those updated ATI drivers in with its install. The additional drivers download isn't required for the current main download on that page. AirPort is nonfunctional on my install. USB runs at 1.1 speed (classic Mac OS limitation). Depending on the Mac mini G4 model, audio playback works either via USB or audio-out jack, but not both. I get audio-out jack playback (1.4GHz model). Apple System Profiler thinks it's running on a Macintosh G4 Cube. I get full duplex ethernet, which is just as well, as we run on wired ethernet here.
Last Edit: October 31, 2022, 05:18 by MTT
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wove
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1024 MB Posts: 1363
Reply #3 on: October 31, 2022, 15:12
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Thanks @MTT, I use Unarchiver on. OSX. I guess I should have just double clicked the .sit file rather than going on a wild goose chase. I was not fond of OS 9 even when it was the current OS. The best thing I remember about it was it introduced iTools, which morphed into dotMac, which became MobileMe and is now known as iCloud. I have been using my Mac email address for over a couple decades now. I have been planning to move to Sorbet Leopard on the Mini. I installed it on my PM G5 and was impressed with it. When Leopard reached end of life, Linux became my daily OS. The PM G5 is a potent machine, but it uses way to much power for daily use. Sorbet on the Mini, might make a nice Mac Desktop. Oh, you are correct the AirPort in the Mini does not work with my wireless network, but I do have wired networking at the desktop.
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Bolkonskij
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Administrator 1024 MB Posts: 2023
Reply #4 on: October 31, 2022, 15:56
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Quote from: MTT Not quite. The separate updated ATI drivers, are intended to be used by anyone who had previously installed OS 9.2.2 using the earlier OS build that was on that page (and can't be bothered installing the whole OS all over again). Aha, thanks for the clarification! Seems like I mixed it up and thought those were like the "final and best ATI drivers you could get". So there isn't a compelling reason to replace the ones in the Ross Darker OS9 lives install with those on the MG page then?
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MTT
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256 MB Posts: 394 SSW7 Oldtimer
Reply #5 on: November 09, 2022, 02:00
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Quote from: Bolkonskij: "So there isn't a compelling reason to replace the ones in the Ross Darker OS9 lives install with those on the MG page then?"Well, there could be. The reason I ditched the Ross Darker version was because OpenGL did not work in my Mac mini G4 1.4GHz model. Any game requiring OpenGL either crashed or tried to play at approx. 1 frame per second (or longer). It was not a good experience. I only found one other person reporting the same issue, so it must be rare. But as OpenGL now works and Mac OS 9 is working OK for me with that alternative build, I won't going back to check those updated drivers with the Ross disc 
Last Edit: November 09, 2022, 02:13 by MTT
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wove
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1024 MB Posts: 1363
Reply #6 on: March 01, 2023, 00:01
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I am using the OS 9 on the MacMini that is installed via Apple Image Restore. In my first look through it was very nice and useable. However as I have used it more, it seems very unstable. At least half the time it boots with the mouse not working. Whenever it goes to sleep, it wakes back up without a working mouse. And just generally it seems to freeze/lockup after 30-60 minutes of use. Also I installed Tiger over it hoping to use it for "Classic Mode", but it does not appear as an option in the Classic System settings on Tiger. Has anyone used both of the available installers for OS 9 on the mini? And does one work better than the other? As of this time, I find that SheepShaver and UTM (QEMU) work much much better.
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MTT
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256 MB Posts: 394 SSW7 Oldtimer
Reply #7 on: March 01, 2023, 03:57
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Hello wove. I have installed Mac OS 9.2.2 to my Mac mini G4, from both the Apple Image Restore version, and the Mac OS Install version. Of the two, I definitely prefer the latter, Mac OS Install version. I could also be accused of bias here, as the CD image on that page, is my build and upload. But for all of the reasons that you've described here, those and (for me) the extremely poor OpenGL support were also the main impetus that drove me to create this alternative CD installer for the Mac mini G4. And I do believe that this Mac OS Install (rev 2) version, is the better and more stable of the two. Neither are perfect. The mouse still occasionally sticks with my build. The Mac mini's Airport will remain unsupported in the Mac OS 9 ROM, USB 1.1 speed is something we have to live with, and allowing the Mac to go to sleep will cause it to lock up. Minor annoyances: Opening simple Apple installed programs like the Scrapbook and Apple System Profiler can trigger the fan to start spinning up faster than I would prefer. While larger resource hogging applications remain perfectly quiet. The basic system beep doesn't work , so sounds can't be applied to error warnings -the screen flashes instead. Sound otherwise works as expected, but the "Silent Upgrade" Mac mini's may have issues with sound not working at all. Workarounds for me are, as the Mac mini boots up and when you first see the small "smiley Mac face", move the mouse a few millimeters (approx 1/2 inch). This works 99.9% of the time for me, in getting the mouse not to stick at boot time. I use Apple's built-in "Energy Saver" Control Panel, set not to go to sleep, but to allowing only the display to go to sleep. I do not use the 3rd party "Sleeper" Control Panel, as it doesn't fully put the display to sleep (it dims my display but it is still remains back-lit). The Mac OS installed "Energy Saver" dims to black and also kills the back light correctly. Further more, as the mini makes no noise at all, just allowing the screen only to go to sleep, and as long as there is no fan affecting program running, it is as tho' the whole device is asleep anyway (dead quiet) -and it never fails to wake up. In order to get the built in Energy Saver you must install it from the rev 2 disc, as the Image Restore version install has omitted it and installs the 3rd party Sleeper Control Panel, only. Also, my preference for a Mac OS install type situation, is that I get to choose what additional software I want to install and not what somebody else has deemed necessary. If ELN updates his Mac OS ROM to iron out some of those bugs, I'll build a "rev 3" Mac mini G4 install disc. Posted today from Mac OS 9.2.2, Mac mini G4 rev 2 build, and iCab v3.0.5
Last Edit: March 01, 2023, 06:25 by MTT
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Bolkonskij
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Administrator 1024 MB Posts: 2023
Reply #8 on: March 01, 2023, 07:37
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Great post, MTT! I've only two add that I've tested OS9 running on both a 1,25 Ghz and a 1,42 Ghz model and neither showed the stability issues you experienced. But I was using the "Ross Darker OS9" install one time and MTT's linked download on the other. In fact, Mac OS9 has been very stable on the machine and even though I use it nearly every day, I can't remember it crashing more than 1 or 2 times on me during the past 6 month. And that was when I was testing old software. The locked mouse issue is there, but it's more like 1 in 10 boot times thing. Try the image MTT linked and report back, almost sure you'll see much better results!
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wove
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1024 MB Posts: 1363
Reply #9 on: March 01, 2023, 14:02
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Thanks for the additional information. I guess that MTT is "MikeTomTom". I downloaded the image. I used my last CD on the other 9.2 build, so I need to find some blank CDs before I go further. We did have a store in town that use to sell them and I hope they still do. I have two objectives. I want to have a very fleshed out OpenDoc setup. I would also like to see how OpenDoc works and behaves in the Classic mode of OS X. I do actually have one machine that will natively run the Classic Mac OS. It is a GigaBit Ethernet machine, which will boot from and run 9.0.4. It is a dual G4 very nicely upgraded. OS 9 and earlier really just wastes dual processors. Love it or hate it, it is the machine that really hooked me on OS X. It is really one of my favorite Macs of all time. I picked up one for each of the kids when I sent them off to college. The one I currently have was one of those machince, that number 2 son gave back to me after he was done with school. Thanks for the help and the pointers. I will report back with my experiences.I generally remember how things worked, but I am kind of new to how to make them work "now".
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wove
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1024 MB Posts: 1363
Reply #10 on: March 04, 2023, 03:52
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Trouble with OS installers seems to be going around. I downloaded MTT's file from Macinstosh Garden. All I have to work with is Mac OS X High Sierra. I extreated the .sit file using unarchiver and burned the iso image to a CD using the Finder's built in Burn to Disk. A CD was created and was readily readable in both OS X ond in the OS 9 install I have on the mini. However while it was readable, it was not bootable. I made another after makeing a fresh extraction of .sit file, but the result was the same. The disk was readable, but not bootable. I downloaded a fresh .sit file, extracted it, placed it on a thunb drive, moved it to a Linux install and burned it from there. The result was the same; readable disk; unbootable disk. I am not sure what I am doing wrong. I know the machine boots from CD because the current OS 9 install was from a burned CD and I have installed Morph OS on the mini from a burned CD as well. There is mention that OS X corrupts the iso? I am not sure when that happens or how or why it happens. I have extracted the .sit from both OS X and from OS 9, but in the end I need it on an OS X machine, because that is where I have a good burning drive.
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MTT
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256 MB Posts: 394 SSW7 Oldtimer
Reply #11 on: March 04, 2023, 06:53
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Hi wove. Extract a fresh copy from the .sit file. Get info and check the locked status of the .iso, and ensure it's locked before doing anything else. Start Disk Utility and drag the locked .iso file into the lower left pane of the Utility window. Select its name in the Utility window and click Burn. This should result in a bootable disc. I hope that works, as it's a PTA if all you get is a coaster. 
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