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| Author | Dabbling with System 6 ... (Read 40650 times) | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Bolkonskij
Administrator 1024 MB  Posts: 2023 
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on: December 18, 2024, 15:37
...somebody else enjoying System 6? Arguably, while much more limited than System 7, it's such a snappy little OS straight from the 1980's. At times I enjoy booting my IIci into 6.0.8 and playing around with it. I haven't really tried to set up things there (as I did with 7.1) but I think with the holiday season coming up, it might be a fun thing to do. Somebody else dabbling with it? Or willing to join in and find out what the best applications are for a certain task etc.? Even if only via emulation? 
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Last Edit: December 18, 2024, 15:39 by Bolkonskij
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lauland
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512 MB  Posts: 674 Symtes 7 Mewconer!
Reply #1 on: December 18, 2024, 16:26
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A few decades ago, my only "Mac" was an ~8mhz 68000 Amiga (AMax), 5m of ram. Needless to say, I was a System 6 daily driver under such limited conditions! (Did get a cpu accelerator and more RAM as soon as possible!) When porting Arashi to the SE/30 (and other monochrome Macs), I gleefully pulled the accelerator and extra ram out, revisiting my younger days, and got it running. Quite fun hunting down all the System 7 only Toolbox calls and creating alternatives. Quite slow, but that wasn't the point. I have a Mac Classic, which actually has a "secret" disk with System 6 in ROM that it can boot off. It is currently "dead", in need of recapping...one day... There's an unofficial version of System 6 that will run on PowerBooks 160/170/180, but it doesn't even have an installer, so you have to put it together yourself. I never got all the files quite right, but do want to revisit that. If you post more about your experience it might inspire me to finish! (And, if PETSCII Robots ever gets "done", I'll definitely get it running on System 6!)
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Jatoba
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256 MB Posts: 270 System 9 Newcomer!
Reply #2 on: December 18, 2024, 18:09
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System 6 Today System 6 Paradise System 6 Daily System 6 Eternal Maybe @Knez will launch the secret sister forum/site for System 6. 
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wove
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1024 MB Posts: 1363
Reply #3 on: December 18, 2024, 19:08
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I have long felt that System 6 represented the best productivity system designed. Time has really brought out its limitations. There is no web browsing, and the fewer hardware resources seriously limit, video, sound and graphics work. However for typical run of the mill office and home work, it is a system that easily keeps the user focused on the task at hand. Black and white display keeps the work space in clear focus with little distraction from colorful icons and such. Keeping the “multi-finder” turned off keeps the system very stable, focuses the resources on the current task, and limits distractions. System 7 made it easy for me to create a productive workflow which with some modifications I continue to use to this day. I type with on a 2019 MPB, which has the display set to greyscale with the “enhance contrast” selected. I am using notes, which is opened full screen on its own workspace. So to this day I do not have the distraction of color, and the application I use occupies the full workspace with whatever might be going on in the background hidden away and not intruding. For many people today it is a refreshing interface. One runs across folks who really like the e-ink tablets and readers for the focus it helps create around their work. I know a few Linux users who work in the console, and switch to a new console when they change tasks. I am not really a multitasker, I am a decent time and resource manager, but when working I want to stay focused and absorbed in the task at hand. I am also scatter-brained enough that any work environment that aides in that is much appreciated.
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ShinobiKenobi
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256 MB Posts: 362 System 7 fan
Reply #4 on: December 19, 2024, 01:03
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I have a Mac SE that needs a hard drive, otherwise I'd play with it. It had a 20 MB hd, and it was so snappy. For years it ran perfectly, booting up to the desktop in a snap, and then one day I tried it, and I got the ? disk icon. I'd love to have an Amiga.
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Bolkonskij
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Administrator 1024 MB Posts: 2023
Reply #5 on: December 21, 2024, 11:24
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After playing around with System 6 on the IIci for the past few days I think I can safely say System 6 != System 7 I find it far more limited in what it can do. Also in how "polished" it is in terms of UI. It is a somewhat strange fellow. It already incorporates some of Apple's forward thinking ideas of the time. And certainly user feedback they had gotten over the years. All while it still retains this strong mid 80's / early Mac days flavour. It's an interesting mix. Been trying to work some. We plan on rearranging our living room and MacDraw seems like the software for it. The kids ran some (educational) games on it and I telneted (is that even a verb?) into some BBSes and dived into GopherSpace. (hey, "The Gopher Lawn" links to us and Mac OS 9 Lives now ... very neat!). Wallops runs fine in it with version 1.x, so it gives me the ability to chat via Telegram with my contacts. Great! Somebody else on Telegram and up for an occasional chat? :-) (Wallops does crash on any version 2.x, I've already notified Joshua Stein about it and hope he can find an easy fix) Btw, I'm using the WiFi DA by the aforementioned Joshua Stein to connect to my wireless home network via the BlueSCSI WiFi which is very neat. A System 6 machine online wirelessly. Who would have ever thought :-) A thing that is very nice is that the IIci gives me the ability to run System 6 in both black & white and (up to 256) colours. Especially the latter isn't so common, given most Macs of the age were indeed b&w compact machines. So a lot of people have the "System 6 in black & white" experience that @wove described above. There is indeed a need for something like System 6 Today. There have been good projects, but many died way too early. Knezzen and I don't have any immediate plans though :-) however, I find it hard to find certain "last versions" of applications or generally get an overview about what's available and even possible. For example, still looking for a capable Usenet client. I tried InterNews but it can't seem to handle ports with domains, at least that's my impression. Sketchy error messaging. The downside is - there is no WWW, there is no Hotline. BBSing is straight down to classic Telnet, no fancy ANSI colour support. And most importantly; no StuffIt 5.5 support. Which is sad. Because so much early software on the Mac Garden has been wrongly packaged in StuffIt 5.5 archives. These cannot be opened on an earlier system, effectively locking out the systems the software is intended for. Until this gets fixed (if ever), you do need a bridge machine (or a System 7 partition that you can boot into, like I do) System 6 has been very stable for me. Rock-Solid, think System 7.1. This might be due to my used version 6.0.8 being the "end of the road" one, earlier versions may have more instabilities. A few utilities I've installed and come to use: On Cue 1.3 For an easy launcher, hides in the upper right menu bar HierDA Gives you System 7's hierachical menus on System 6! MountImage 1.1ß3 For mounting image files, tends to be a bit picky though - thx @MTT for the bug tip DiskDup+ 2.5.1 For mounting the rest / DiskCopy images Eyeballs 1.0 By Ben Haller of Solarian fame ...it's menu bar eyeballs tracking mouse movements ... the kids had great fun with it) SuperClock 4.0.4 A menu bar clock, alarm clock etc. WindowShade Well, gives the lovely collapsing windows ... BBedit lite 3.5.1 Last version for System 6. Runs wonderfully and gives the lovely text-editing environment that I'm used to. Found "VideoWorks", apparently a very old Video / animation tool for System 6 and earlier. Dug up even some movies for it. Fun stuff. Also an interesting Disk Accesory "Inside Mac DA". It incorporates a list of early Tool Box calls. You'd be able to call the DA up even when not in multifinder while coding in the editor. You can then copy + paste functions for example. Sounds cool, need to spend more time with it. @lauland fix up the Classic (or have it fixed!) and then start coding on it! :-) Like Joshua does code all his stuff on a Mac Plus in System 6. I find that very appealing. Not for nostalgic reason, but because the immersion/focus is so great (to echo what @wove wrote above).
Last Edit: December 21, 2024, 11:42 by Bolkonskij
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Jatoba
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256 MB Posts: 270 System 9 Newcomer!
Reply #6 on: December 21, 2024, 12:14
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Quote from: Bolkonskij And most importantly; no StuffIt 5.5 support. Which is sad. Because so much early software on the Mac Garden has been wrongly packaged in StuffIt 5.5 archives. These cannot be opened on an earlier system, effectively locking out the systems the software is intended for. Until this gets fixed (if ever), you do need a bridge machine (or a System 7 partition that you can boot into, like I do) You should be able to use your System 6 host system to run Mini vMac with a virtual Mac II System 7.5.x guest system. A Mac II guest is so that you can run 68020+ software, and System 7.5 minimum so that you can run StuffIt Expander 5.5.1 (which also has the 68020+ CPU requirement). Since you have a Mac IIci, this setup should work for your System 6 machine. Otherwise, I know Mac II guests are not supported on pre-Mac-II Macs, I think due to the 68000 CPU, whereas the Mac II guest tries to emulate a 68020 to some capacity. (One could still try to see what happens, though, but fortunately for you, you don't need to worry about this requirement.)
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wove
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1024 MB Posts: 1363
Reply #7 on: December 22, 2024, 04:30
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Quote from: “Bolkonskij” I telneted (is that even a verb?) English spell checking says it is not a word, however I would have to say it falls into the category of perfectly acceptable English usage. Dived is probably fine English as well, but for me "I dove" sounds better than "I dived". Dove is one of those idiot English works that has two pronunciations for the same spelling. Dove as in jumping into water, is pronounced different than dove as a type of bird. I am not sure whether the English or the Americans are responsible for that mess.
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ShinobiKenobi
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256 MB Posts: 362 System 7 fan
Reply #8 on: December 23, 2024, 20:43
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From wove: I am not sure whether the English or the Americans are responsible for that mess. I'm pretty sure both words are far, far older than the length of time since Europeans sailed to America. Also, languages evolve over time. "Telnetted" should be a verb in my opinion, but normal English grammar would add a "t" in the verb. The word "telnet" was made up, so why can't we make up a verb for it? "I telnetted to several BBSes" is far easier and more efficient than always having to say "I connected to several BBSes via telnet". Also, there's one thing about English that really annoys me, and that is proper English grammar dictates that a comma or period goes inside a quote, instead of outside. Obviously the person who made that rule wasn't a programmer. How can you end a sentence from inside a quote? That's just stupid.
Last Edit: December 23, 2024, 20:49 by ShinobiKenobi
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wove
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1024 MB Posts: 1363
Reply #9 on: December 23, 2024, 21:10
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Quote from: ShinobiKenobi Also, there's one thing about English that really annoys me, and that is proper English grammar dictates that a comma or period goes inside a quote, instead of outside. Obviously the person who made that rule wasn't a programmer. How can you end a sentence from inside a quote? That's just stupid. I have no clue what side of the Atlantic you hail from, but I fully agree with you on ending a sentence from inside a quotation. I most always do it wrong then hopefully correct my mistake when proofreading. But then who proofreads in casual writing.
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ovalking
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128 MB Posts: 199
Reply #10 on: December 24, 2024, 09:07
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Hmm... 'Telnet' doesn't even warrant an entry in my Chambers Science and Technology Dictionary (1988). Trying to keep on topic, I vaguely remember using system 6, but didn't know it at the time. At work we had a Plus (prob sys 5) and SE (prob sys 6). They had operational differences, but I was a just Mac novice, and associated the differences with the hardware rather than software. Only when 7 came along did I appreciate what system software was. According to my notes, the last models in each range that can run 6 were Classic II, LCII, IIsi, Powerbook 100.u
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lauland
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512 MB Posts: 674 Symtes 7 Mewconer!
Reply #11 on: December 24, 2024, 18:33
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System 6: I do enjoy working within the limitations...it's a bit zen almost, or practicing personal discipline, not to mention fun wringing out so much from so little. It's nice working on small systems because you get a lot of bang for your buck, everything is so tiny so transferring files is a breeze (usually!), and tiny hard drives (seem to) hold so much as the apps aren't bloated. Not to mention you can know EACTLY what is running on your computer... I had even more fun limiting myself to just Black and White, and love my powerbook 170 for that reason, not to mention how a 34+ year old machine can feel so solid compared to modern, disposable, hardware. Took it even further for the Arashi game port, and limited myself to the 128k(!) Mac Plus roms, so no Color QuickDraw, but could use solely the first volume of Inside Mac for reference. ---- English (Nobody cares, way more than you want to know, but I'm a hopeless language geek): The ones with vowel gradations are "strong English verbs", so swim-swam-swum, etc, as opposed to "weak" ones whose past tense gets "-ed". When new verbs are added to the language (like "to telnet") they'll probably be "weak" unless a "strong" version "sounds better". Consonants will be doubled in weak ones if the e in "-ed" would act as a "silent e" and change the vowel in front of the consonant, unless it already was (so past tense of "to rat" is "ratted", but "to rate" is "rated" etc). Strong verbs tend to be irregular, sound weird, but are fun...spin-span-spun! This is all stuff native speakers do subconsciously. I propose the past tense of "to telnet" should be "telnat" (or "telnot"), as in "Yesterday I telnat the BBS".
Last Edit: December 24, 2024, 18:37 by lauland
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Byte Knight
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16 MB Posts: 18 System 7 Newcomer!
Reply #12 on: December 29, 2024, 04:14
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Quote from: Bolkonskij The downside is - there is no WWW, there is no Hotline. BBSing is straight down to classic Telnet, no fancy ANSI colour support. You could use ZTerm with a wifi modem to get ANSI emulation! -BK
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Bolkonskij
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Administrator 1024 MB Posts: 2023
Reply #13 on: December 30, 2024, 10:52
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Yeah, but pretty much locking myself out of Gopher. "No way no how" as they say in some parts of the U.S. :-) Is it actually possible to run a BBS and offer both ANSI and non-ANSI compliant service? I think I vaguely remember there being BBSes offering a "bridge screen" before login which let's a user choose?
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cballero
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1024 MB Posts: 1176 System 7, today and forever
Reply #14 on: December 30, 2024, 17:19
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Having started my Mac OS experience on System 6 Macs running off of a floppy disk, it should really fly on a Mac IIci, and even more so, a IIfx!  I owned a Mac Classic II bought brand new, and they have a neat feature of being able to boot from system 6.03 coded into its ROM! One warning, however: do not ever try to change its desktop pattern, as this, at least for me, bricked my ROM System 6!  but either from the ROM, on a floppy or straight from the hard drive, System 6 was a pleasure to use both in its speed, and with extensions, especially from the hard drive, an immersive Mac experience!System 7, thankfully, built on that and never looked back
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