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| Author | HFS+ on System 7.5.5 ~ Mac OS 8.0 (Read 21266 times) | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Jatoba
256 MB  Posts: 270 System 9 Newcomer! 
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on: March 08, 2024, 13:20
Hey guys, I figure some of you already came across this, but it is possible to enable HFS+ support for the following OSes, both on 68k and PPC, although I suspect 68k still can't boot off them just like how stock Mac OS 8.1 can't: - System 7.5.5 - Mac OS 7.6 - Mac OS 7.6.1 - Mac OS 8.0 This is work done by one of the retro Mac developer legends "Elliot Nunn", who, among many other things, is one of the key people behind us being able to use Mac OS 9.2.2 on the Mac mini G4. This is the GitHub page with his tooling that makes this possible, with some instructions on how to use it: https://github.com/elliotnunn/HFSPlusBackport This is a m68kmla forums thread that he and other people discuss it: https://68kmla.org/bb/index.php?threads/backporting-hfs-to-mac-os-8-0-and-earlier.35742/ This is REALLY cool and knocks Mac OS 8.1 out in terms of considering it only for the HFS+ support, since now (rather, since 2020?) we have the ability to use System 7.5.5 or later. For the first time we have a version of the OS that supports ALL 3 Mac file systems for both read and write: MFS, HFS and HFS+ (7.5.5 and 7.6). Since 7.6 accidentally introduces regression compared to 7.5.5 (according to some Apple docs / changelogs I read long ago), and since 7.5.5 is bootable on a HUGE list of systems, even on Mini vMac, I have to say 7.5.5 is my favorite OS after Mac OS 9.2.2, although I would still consider using 7.6.1 on a PowerPC machine over 7.5.5, for reasons known to most here. Anyhow... Unfortunately the tool requires Python 3, UNIX-like OSes and whatnot to get Elliot's tooling going (no MacPython and no Mac OS support), but it's there. I want to poke at, but I'm not sure I'm the most qualified for the task right now. But one thing that I think would be REALLY cool to have here on System7Today is if we had a page dedicated to bringing HFS+ to System 7. Even better would be if we had pre-patched System files with this ability for both 68k and PPC Macs, and across versions of all regions that shipped their own System 7.5.5 to Mac OS 8.0. What do you guys think of that idea? Making it easy and accessible for all! |
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cballero
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1024 MB Posts: 1176 System 7, today and forever
Reply #1 on: March 08, 2024, 22:20
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Spot-on, Jatoba!!!  So, good news on that front: Knezzen's been working on a killer mac OS 7.6.1 installer  and I quote:Quote from: Knezzen I'm working on a modified official installer for 7.6.1 with all the latest updates bundled, so you don't need to install a thousand things afterwards. http://system7today.com/forums/index.php?topic=3627.msg14988 We also talked about briefly before that here: http://system7today.com/forums/index.php?topic=3367 http://system7today.com/forums/index.php?topic=3565 And we've all been guilty to forget to tag any secure https links we add to our posts with something like 'modern browser' since those apparently lock-up really old 68k Mac web browsers  but absolutely no worries; I do it like all the time! lol 
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Bolkonskij
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Administrator 1024 MB  Posts: 2023
Reply #2 on: March 09, 2024, 08:58
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This topic isn't as new as it might seem, it's been tested and discussed by various people for several years. (if I'd be nasty, I'd say wait a couple more years to have some sensationalist "Retro Tech Youtuber" reveal it as his latest invention ...) So it's working. HFS+ and System 7 go together. The problem is rather to tie everything up into a nice installer that gives you HFS+ support with no hassle. So far, nobody has done that and you might want to keep poking Knezzen to continue with it :-)
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Knezzen
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Administrator 512 MB Posts: 608 Village idiot
Reply #3 on: March 09, 2024, 11:55
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Fixing the installer is a part of my very long backlog Right now the computer I use to work on this is disconnected and the room it's going to be set up in is under renovation. Soon Until then I think we have the built files on Hotline if anyone wants to have a go themselves.
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Jatoba
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256 MB Posts: 270 System 9 Newcomer!
Reply #4 on: March 09, 2024, 14:23
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So like the Mac OS 9.2.2 "Universal" install from Mac OS 9 Lives!, but for 7.6.1 instead. Nice. Would be cool to see System 7.5.5 also being given that treatment at some point. I'll go check the files in Hotline. Now. Incidentally, I wonder if Elliot's idea of comparing System files like that (i.e. Mac OS 8.0 vs. 8.1 to see where they differ) could lead us to find code that makes the OS seek the ROM file, instead of actual ROM, for when present in a New World ROM machine. IIRC Mac OS 8.1 was the first to do that, as well, in those Bondi Blue G3 PowerMac towers. As long as such an ability is there in the system / OS itself, it's often just a matter of poking around OpenFirmware to get various machines to boot with earlier OSes. Mac OS 8.6 has been previously booted on an MDD, for example, by the guys at MacRumors PPC. Similar efforts were also there for other Mac systems and machines. But 8.1 would be the lowest possible for New World ROM machines... unless if we patch whatever 8.1 is doing back into 8.0, 7.5.5 etc., just as how HFS+ is patched back! It might be not as "easy" as that, though, but it could be fun to look into it.
Last Edit: March 09, 2024, 14:31 by Jatoba
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Knezzen
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Administrator 512 MB Posts: 608 Village idiot
Reply #5 on: March 09, 2024, 18:10
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It's using the same methodology as Elliot I got basic USB HID support working in Mac OS 7.6.1 on my PowerMac 8600. It's surely a very good approach to "backporting" functionality.
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cballero
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1024 MB Posts: 1176 System 7, today and forever
Reply #6 on: March 09, 2024, 20:48
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I literally drool over all of the possible Universal OS installer possibilities! I remember using various universal Macintosh System 7.1 up to Mac OS 7.5.3 System Folders with every enabler on the planet back in the day so I could boot-up all of the II-series, Performas, Centrices, Quadras, the last Classic, LC-series, PowerMacs and PowerBooks and Duos. It was a very odd time figuring which one worked with what!  I'm glad those days are over! lol Indeed, seeing patched OSes with new capabilities released feels like the Holy Grail of Macintoshing! Now if we can only get PopupFolder to work on Mac OS 8.1 or even FinderPop on Mac OS 8.1 for 68k Macs (it only works on PPC Macs) and if ever doable, then Mac OS 7.6.x! lol
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