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| Author | The Old Internet shows signs of quietly coming back (Read 13087 times) | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Bolkonskij
Administrator 1024 MB  Posts: 2023 
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on: March 14, 2022, 14:24
That's the name of a post on the cheapskatesguide.org, a blog that fogwraith sent me a link to. I really recommend everyone on S7T to read it and spread it if you like it: http://cheapskatesguide.org/articles/old-internet-coming-back.html (works fine on iCab 2.9.9; https available if you have to use it) The points made in this article make a lot of sense and indeed, if you dig a bit, you see more and more projects starting that deliberately try to drop out of the coporate walled garden and its requirements. They are just not that obvious finds because they are not supposed to be according to Google, Meta & others. What do you think about the article? (or cheapskatesguide.org at all? It's a great resource) |
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mac-cellar
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128 MB  Posts: 176 Gotta love System 7
Reply #1 on: March 14, 2022, 19:41
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Thanks for posting this! One initial reaction: I've only recently realized how much I miss the "old internet" as I've toyed with "Surprise Me" feature on Wiby.me. I usually try to see how many sites I can get to without landing on a page I've already seen, but as time goes on that is taking longer to do. I've found myself on fascinating sites about everything from history to computer games to flowers. I've been bookmarking these and I now have a list of over 50. This has become a fun way to end the work day for me. I'm thinking about creating a page of links on my site - if I found these interesting, maybe someone else will too?
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Bolkonskij
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Administrator 1024 MB Posts: 2023
Reply #2 on: March 15, 2022, 06:49
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I do exactly the same thing through wiby.org, that is exploration via the surprise me feature. Finding stuff I find interesting but never knew existed is something that was a core experience of the old net that has totally gotten lost. I love to expand my knowledge and views. Yesterday found a travel blog by someone who drove through Canada on his moped - I don't live near Canada, don't own a moped and yet it was a fun read! Easily beats government propaganda on the news outlets or Social Media in entertainment value ;-) I share the sentiment of the above article. I see the web 3.0 slowly making a comeback, first with us computer nerds in charge, but we'll slowly but steadily grow. Even more so with the corporate walled gardens trying to push harder and harder for monetization. Go ahead with the link section please! That's the original idea of how pages will "connect" with eachother :-)
Last Edit: March 15, 2022, 16:01 by Bolkonskij
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mac-cellar
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128 MB Posts: 176 Gotta love System 7
Reply #3 on: March 15, 2022, 15:31
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OK then, a page of links it is! Looking forward to working on it. For me, that experience of discovering new sites run by real people connected by shared passions or pursuits is what the old phrase "surfing the web" really means. It's been such a treat to discover that not only are real people still creating and maintaining their own sites (something I have assumed had passed into history), but many from that "old internet" period are still up and running after all this time.
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Bolkonskij
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Administrator 1024 MB Posts: 2023
Reply #4 on: March 15, 2022, 16:04
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Yes, both is true and if you check out cheapskatesguide, he also has an article that discusses how this impression is generated by Social Media and Google specifically de-ranking personal "passionate" pages in favor of brands, buisnesses and mainstream media. Time for a Reconquista! ;-)
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68040
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512 MB Posts: 950 68k - thy kingdom come, thy will be done !
Reply #5 on: March 23, 2022, 22:38
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Sorry folks but while I support the analysis of the article to a 100%, I completely disagree with its conclusions. In 1989 the Berlin Wall wasn't brought down by an unstopable desire for Western freedom, but by an unresolvable lack of bananas and high colored porn in the East. Nudy stuff and groccery retailers like Beathe Use and Aldi were the winners of the day, when the wall came down. Not publishers of Abraham Lincoln's memoirs. So the Internet of today is in exactly the sleezy state of affairs that the cattle who populate this mocky pasture prefer it in. When I am not in "vintage mode" I spend 95% of my time online on exactly two websites: Facebook and Amazon And that I have in common with the overwhelming majority of all those who bother browsing the Internet in the first place. It sucks and it degrades, but we live in degrading days anyway.
Last Edit: March 23, 2022, 22:45 by 68040
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Bolkonskij
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Administrator 1024 MB Posts: 2023
Reply #6 on: March 24, 2022, 16:47
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So much pessimism, cheer up, friend! Nothing is lost yet and nobody can stop us from creating and flourishing in our little corner of the net! :-) Just as if he had seen our discussions, Cheapskate published a new blogpost on this matter labeled The New Internet We can Expect, Not the One We Want It's an interesting piece that tries to assess what the likely development of the web is going to be.
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68040
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512 MB Posts: 950 68k - thy kingdom come, thy will be done !
Reply #7 on: March 24, 2022, 18:00
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I am not pessimistic Bolkonskij, just realistic. First about the minority status we old timers have and wil always retain and second about the (diminishing) acceptance that our refusal to "join progress" has among those who've got a vested interest in monitoring and milking the cattle on "their" pasture. Be it snooping governments or big corporations: They all like us best if we keep consumimg and obey orders as they are passed. The mere idea of cookieless browsing or vintage untrackable Internet apps is for them at best bizarre and laughable. At worst they'll denouce us as a security threat and outlaw vintage Internet browsing "out of solidarity for the most vulnerable in society". Think of the children!
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cballero
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1024 MB Posts: 1176 System 7, today and forever
Reply #8 on: March 25, 2022, 17:36
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While a simpler Internet is the ideal, the biggest obstacle is education to foster interest in more people. The old Internet is not hard to find thanks to sites like archive.org  But it is hard to bring back that old Internet if not enough people see it purposeful, meaning that the simple web of today is called mobile browsing (which in turn made things like Classila possible because mobile web pages are much easier for older OSes to display and even communicate with) so it makes it a little more challenging to tell folks to use what society views as outdated computers when all you need is in the palm of your hand  One could even argue that the iPhone brought forth the end of personal computing by putting computing (and cameras for that matter) in ones pockets and now with Apple watch and other smart watches, the stories of Dick Tracy are finally part of our present, yet sad reality 
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68040
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512 MB Posts: 950 68k - thy kingdom come, thy will be done !
Reply #9 on: March 25, 2022, 17:53
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The biggest obstacle is the lack of interest: Edward Snowden is still stuck in Russia and Julian Assange sits with his aging @ss stuck in a small jail cell in the United Kingdom. And as far as big corporations are concerned, the only time any government official shows a vested interest in reigning those in, is when the hope of raising tax revenue overwhelms the inertia build into the system. What Internet users want is convenience and entertainment - the rest is good for talk show hosts and tin foil hat parties. Millions of people install 24/7 listening devices called "Alexa" in their home voluntarily all across the globe. And we still got the "Internet of Things" to look for. You need the latest Internet tech to support the newest surveilance tools - anybody knows that and most are perfectly OK with it. Just as long as it doesn't mess up your shopping basket. 
Last Edit: March 25, 2022, 17:58 by 68040
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Bolkonskij
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Administrator 1024 MB Posts: 2023
Reply #10 on: March 26, 2022, 06:53
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Yeah, I don't think it's something for the masses until the pain gets onto increadibly high-levels. This movement is something for us IT folks and otherwise "enlighted" users. There's thousands of quality privately-run "old internet style" websites out there. But it's had for people to find them, because the giants like Google don't feature them in their search results (or just de-rank them). The above linked Cheapskateguide is a great example, isn't it? You don't accidently hit on one such page unless you're specifically searching for them or use wiby.org. As mentioned in the article and pointed out by 68040, the biggest problem is the expectation of the modern user. They have next to no understanding of how things work. They "use the internet" but in reality all they do is going from one walled corporate garden (Instagram) to another (WhatsApp) to another (YouTube). There is no understanding of how the internet works. My nephew is 18 years old and hey, he has no understanding of how a computer basically works, both on the hardware and software side of things. ("I just click on the icon and it works") You can see that lack of knowledge also within the "Retro Mac Community". People dig out a Mac OS 9 iMac from the closet, join a Facebook or Discord group and ask questions like "Can I watch YouTube with it? What browser will run Facebook?". No, you can't! But you can be real creative and productive. And you will be the owner of your data and control your life yourself! So alternatives will not be the same, but better. It's a whole different experience and I 100% agree with that assessment in the blogpost above. It takes what has been lost in us for two decades now - the urge to explore a fun, digital universe.
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68040
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512 MB Posts: 950 68k - thy kingdom come, thy will be done !
Reply #11 on: March 26, 2022, 11:06
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Quote: "I just click on the icon and it works". Yeah Bolkonskij, try to explain to your click & bait nephew that WWW is not "the Internet" but only one of many protocols within it. Good luck with that one I know that my vintage world exists on a small island, where the giant tourist flottilas pass us by in the distance. We are of no interest to their search engines or their marketing specialists, because they can't sell us abo-only software (well they could but who'd buy it, rather than hack it?) and our systems are just not fertile enough a data garden to harvest remotely. But that is fine with me. I like the company and as long as the pollution stays far away from my beaches, let them touristers bathe in it neck deep.
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