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| Author | System 7 - the future ? (Read 27364 times) | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Bolkonskij
Administrator 1024 MB  Posts: 2023 
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on: March 11, 2021, 10:51
Lately I've been thinking about the future for our System 7 & beige Macs. Many of them are pushing towards their 30th year of service (or even passed that mark). So will they all die within the next 5 - 10 years with only a few folks carrying on with software emulators, as some doomsayers are suggesting? I don't think so. Apple's hardware has proven to be way more reliable than expected - even by Cupertino. Heck, there's even still thousands of Commodore 64 computers out there from the early 80's, and these were cheap mass-production goods incorporating the cheapest parts - unlike our higher quality Power Macs. I think that original hardware is here to stay for a long time. Much like Oldtimer cars they'll require some dedication and repairs but if you can keep them in shape, they'll perform as wonderfully as they used to. Software is readily available thanks to the Macintosh Garden and everyone can build the "system of his dreams". Hardware projects like SCSI2SD show there's always new solutions to hardware issues. The Amiga and Atari communities are really great role models when it comes to innovations - impressive what has been achieved over there. I'd wish for just a small share of that for our beige Macs! What about the near future? Unlike some, I predict that the level of available System 7 Macs will stay at today's for the next few years and eventually become wider. Why? Whoever has an old Mac won't throw it into the trash as they used to. Everything is pretty much in enthusiast hands with a few "found this in the basement" items popping up now and then. And we'll see a lot more original hardware being offered within a few years as collectors come of age and/or join Adam Rosen in Mac OS Heaven. And emulation? Emulation is likely to remain and be the number one choice for folks wanting to take a quick trip back to System 7 land. Also useful for testing / developing on modern systems via a cross compiler. I don't think that it'll get much bigger than it is nowadays, though. My personal hopes ... With many of former developers and engineers pushing towards pension I do hope a few will want to return to the days when computing was exciting and fun and start hobbyist projects. Both in hardware and software. It's a huge playground and not too many kids playing there, so every project will receive the due attention. :-) What do you guys think about that? Am I completely off on this one? Do you agree? What do YOU think? |
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Last Edit: March 11, 2021, 11:10 by Bolkonskij
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cballero
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1024 MB  Posts: 1179 System 7, today and forever
Reply #1 on: March 11, 2021, 16:37
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Man, I love your optimism  And yes, Macs will continue to keep burning bright for a very long time to come, certainly Apple made them practically indestructible  my only minor quibble is that not all of us are gifted in hardware knowledge, lol.I think Mac model series-specific videos showing not-hardware savvy people what to look for, fix, clean, replace, touch-up, swap-in and out, and whatever these precious Macs need to stay alive would be perfect! As a bit of a Mac hoarder, lol, I haven't let go of my non-working Macs, but I fear someday they may get tossed out  I've managed to do RAM and hard drive swaps though having a fix-it library that goes beyond Apple's technical manuals would be excellent! This way, everyday, non-technical Mac people can see what it is that they can do, done properly, so to help fix their own hardware. Now, some of us are too limited and will need to have their Macs repaired. Maybe having the option of Mac TeleVisits might work to identify the most cost-effective ways to maintain their Macs.I use emulation to test out a bunch of software before putting on my real Macs, especially my 2400c and Pismo G3 Powerbooks which I want to be able to fire up for a long time to come. I do use my Perfoma 6360 several times a week and a Beige G3 is helping some home-schoolers So both real Macs and emulation have a place I think, if only to keep my real Macs running a little longer. Who knows how many working Macs there are in the wild. It's almost like those nature shows about animals nearing extinction. At least spare parts can still be sourced! I've even considered working on building a Mac like some clever people have done like this little Mac https://hackaday.io/project/7867-mini-powermac I've given out a few Macs but I think most got dumped eventually, including a nice Powerbook 180 and Performa 6500. I hate to imagine how many Macs ended up at landfills I dumpster dove by a school where I got a fully-working PowerMac 5500. I even wrote a college paper on the importance and value of re-purposing old technology.I'd rather show people just curious about Classic-era Macs how to emulate them instead! Thankfully, prices now limit their acquisition to true collectors, lol 
Last Edit: March 16, 2021, 00:13 by cballero
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Bolkonskij
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Administrator 1024 MB Posts: 2023
Reply #2 on: March 16, 2021, 08:44
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You're right that not everyone is perfect with the soldering iron but then if you look for someone, you usually find someone capable. Not cheap but then it's ridiculously low priced compared to other hobbies (such as the cited oldtimers). I believe that there are way more old Macs out there "in the wild" than we imagine. I just think that the majority is rotting away on the shelves of collectors / hoarders or their next-to-kin. Just two years ago a local women tried to sell off the collection of her deceased husband, a former software developer, who had a collection of like 100 machines. From Apple II to Atari STs to Quadras. Unfortunately, nothing was recapped and she had inflated price ideas ("oh that LC II? 300$). But the bottom line is that stuff like that will keep popping up more and more within the next few years. There's really no shortage of retro Mac gear, at least for most parts of the world. That doesn't mean I can't see the need for a proper FPGA implementation, though. That'd be my favorite hardware I have to admit. The MIST has a (from what I hear) so-so implementation of a Mac Plus. It's a pity there's not much more going on in that regard.
Last Edit: March 16, 2021, 15:39 by Bolkonskij
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cballero
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1024 MB Posts: 1179 System 7, today and forever
Reply #3 on: March 16, 2021, 15:30
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Recapping!  it's probably not as hard as it sounds, lol, isn't that some kind of board-level soldering process?Things like this are sorely needed. Even available as cheap kits you buy on eBay or something like that and what would make that perfect would be having access to how-to videos showing what to look for, what to get and the steps showing how to do it. I have several non-booting shelved 3400c Powerbooks left over from an old project that would be amazing to breathe life back into What's FPGA? That sounds like something fun and I'm into anything fun, lol!
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scouter
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64 MB Posts: 81 Retired IT Administraor
Reply #4 on: March 16, 2021, 19:17
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FPGA stands for "Field-programmable gate array" which is a device that you can program to be what you want
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snes1423
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256 MB Posts: 458 A Man born of Mechina
Reply #5 on: March 21, 2021, 23:17
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i guess since i am 16 i am one of the few kids my age who actually give a crap about this type of hobby most kids my age (from my experience) would probably call a computer that is just 8-10 years a outdated piece of trash beacuse they would rather go play pubg or fortnite on there iphone rather than explore the roots of that device and how it came to be and beacuse they just are so petty when it comes to computers "oOOoo dAd cAn i gEt the nEw gRaphics card for mY wIncRap pC"
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Europa
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64 MB Posts: 109 she/her
Reply #6 on: March 22, 2021, 15:06
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I like to believe that these systems will stay alive for as long as there is an active community to keep them in good and working order. I don't think the community will be going away any time soon, I won't let it. Really the biggest constraint for me is time, as life is crazy. I do make sure to always leave some room for fun with my favorite era of Macintosh though. I love my vintage Macs and I don't think I'll be letting go of them any time soon.
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thealterlion
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8 MB Posts: 8 I have a powerbook and a dream
Reply #7 on: April 05, 2021, 03:29
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snes1423. As another 16 year old in this forum I would look at it from another point of view. It is normal for most people to see old computers as trash, or useless, because for most day-to-day uses a regular person is far better off using something newer. That doesn't make them inferior, it is just that they have other interests. As someone who owns both a windows gaming pc and got a powerbook520c and an iMac G3 for basically free thanks to sheer luck, and tinkers with them regularly, I don't see any of the two as "superior" or anything. It is just that I'm interested in both of them. Most of my friends could not care less about old macs, but in the same way I'm not interested in some of their hobbies.
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snes1423
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256 MB Posts: 458 A Man born of Mechina
Reply #8 on: April 27, 2021, 04:19
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True but than again (on the windows part) your better off with Linux chances are in the 7+ years windows might move away from the CISC to the RISC (ARM) platform just depending on if Nvidia buys them out first as it is revolutionary more so then when a AMD or a Intel product comes out these days plus no viruses lol
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acarteas
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4 MB Posts: 7 System 7 Newcomer!
Reply #9 on: June 07, 2021, 01:10
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Quote With many of former developers and engineers pushing towards pension I do hope a few will want to return to the days when computing was exciting and fun and start hobbyist projects. Both in hardware and software. It's a huge playground and not too many kids playing there, so every project will receive the due attention. :-) I think this is already happening to some extent. As an early-middle age software developer, the modern tech scene's focus on minimizing risk and maximizing profits (completely understandable) has made tech a whole lot less fun for those like me who are more interested in tinkering over money making. The 8-bit scene is already incredibly vibrant. I've bought several toys for my Apple 2e and gs machines (floppy emulator, HDMI video, ethernet, CPU acceleator, etc.), which has really rekindled my interest in that era of computing. I'm really looking forward to the release of the Commander X16 and others like it that lower the barrier to getting into retro hardware. There is noticeably a lot less classic Mac stuff. Other than the SCSI2SD project, I’m not aware of any new toys that can be plugged into an old mac. I think this is in part because Macs are vastly more complex and there is more secrecy around the hardware (the complete Apple 2 hardware spec is available online). Hopefully that changes as I would love to add an ethernet adapter to my SE/30.
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