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| Author | PowerBook 1400 HEAT (Read 21149 times) | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Vesuvio
8 MB  Posts: 11 
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on: September 04, 2006, 22:04
After browsing this web site for a few months, I finally took the plunge and installed 7.6.1 on a spare partition in my PowerBook 1400c with a 233 MHz Vimage G3 processor. I was blown away by the speed-- it suddenly was easily the most responsive machine in the house. But I noticed that the machine felt much warmer than it did running OS 9.1. I fired up Gauge Pro, and sure enough it reported a temp of 70C. Under 9.1 it typically ranges from 52 - 60C. I shut down for awhile and pointed a fan at it until it had thoroughly cooled down, then restarted. Almost immediately the temp shot back up to 70C, and all I had running was Gauge Pro. Next I tried replacing the Vimage VPower cache control extension with the XLR8 MACh Speed Control 1.4.3 (which allows you to control the speed of the backside cache), but no setting would reduce the temp. Then I tried disabling the backside cache altogether, but still no temp reduction. (By the way, I also had processor cycling enabled in the PowerBook control panel through all this). I switched back to OS 9.1 and immediately the temp began to fall back to the typical range that I'm used to seeing. So, my question is, do other people with G3 upgrades (especially PB 1400 users) notice excessive heat under 7.6.1, and does anyone know why there would be such a dramatic difference? Is there advanced power management features in OS 8.6 and later? The heat is significant enough to discourage me from keeping 7.6.1 installed. --V. |
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dpaanlka
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1024 MB Posts: 1646
Reply #1 on: September 04, 2006, 22:13
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Hmm very interesting. I actually have never used (or even seen) a Vimage G3 upgrade before. My Sonnet upgrades never get hot. I have a three Sonnet G3 and one Sonnet G4 upgrade, and they all run the same under 7 as they do under 8 and 9. 70° is pretty outrageous. I'll have to look into that. Are the Vimage or XLR8 drivers that you are using the same versions you use with OS 8 and 9? If you have extra money, you could probably sell your Vimage G3 on eBay, and pick up a used Sonnet one, they came in several speeds. There are also NewerTech upgrades out there.
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Vesuvio
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8 MB Posts: 11
Reply #2 on: September 04, 2006, 22:19
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Quote from: "dpaanlka" ...Are the Vimage or XLR8 drivers that you are using the same versions you use with OS 8 and 9? Yep, the extension versions are all the same. Funny enough, I used to have a Sonnet 400 MHz for one of my 1400s, but I had nothing but trouble with it. I sold it on eBay so I could buy another Vimage card, and both of my Vimage cards have been rock solid under OS 8.6 and up. That's why this issue was unexpected. By the way, I also tried installing OS 8.1, and it's just as bad as 7.6.1 as far as the heat issue goes. Things only get better at 8.6. --V.
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sierraredd
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128 MB Posts: 212
Reply #3 on: September 06, 2006, 04:51
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I have three 1400's one with a sonnet 333 upgrade. It runs a bit cooler than the 133 and 166. I know power management has a lot to do with heat. I had a bad battery that made things hot enough to freeze the system. How hot does it get with the battery in and how it is out.
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Vesuvio
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8 MB Posts: 11
Reply #4 on: September 06, 2006, 05:48
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Quote from: "sierraredd" How hot does it get with the battery in and how it is out. The temp rockets straight to 70C whether the battery is in, out, or if I'm running from the battery. Interesting that your Sonnet 333 runs cooler than the 166 PPC-- I'd never thought to compare my 1400/166 machine to my two Vimage G3 machines. Sure enough, it feels hotter. Of course, there's no software to actually measure the temp of the PPC 603ev, but the difference is noticeable to the palm of my hand. I've done a bit of reading about Vimage processors, and they seem notorious for running hotter than other brands (some PCI upgrades for desktop machines reportedly have a "normal" operating temp of 85C!), but that still doesn't explain why mine run hot under 7.6.1, but cool (cooler than the original 166, apparently) on 8.6 or 9.1. --V.
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sierraredd
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128 MB Posts: 212
Reply #5 on: September 08, 2006, 07:46
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Does the heat cause performance problems? I know powebooks run hotter in general and are not concidered laptops. Just a portable computer. Have you looked into the external cooling tray things?
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Vesuvio
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8 MB Posts: 11
Reply #6 on: September 09, 2006, 07:06
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Quote from: "sierraredd" Does the heat cause performance problems? I don't think it's getting hot enough to cause problems. In fact, the XLR8 control panel reports the temp as "normal" even when it has risen to 73C. But heat is the enemy of electronic components, and this machine is already approaching 10 years old, so I don't want to torture it if I don't have to. I'm sure a laptop cooling pad would help quite a bit (I know pointing a desk fan at it does), but I don't see the point when running OS 9.1 solves the problem. This machine is actually pretty nimble with 9.1, and I have another 1400cs/166 than I can use to play around with 7.6.1. --V
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bd1308
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128 MB Posts: 198 
Reply #7 on: January 18, 2007, 01:55
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I dont know how one could stand the 117Mhz cpu. even 7.6.1 on that thing was anemic. I guess I'm used to the Sonnet upgrades though.
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Vesuvio
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8 MB Posts: 11
Reply #8 on: July 13, 2008, 01:39
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Nearly two years later, and I finally solved this heat problem (though entirely by accident). I got an error one day that the desktop printer had encountered an error and had shut down. I don't print from my 1400 anyway, so I decided to disable all of the desktop printing extensions altogether. Soon after, the machine seemed noticeably cooler. A look at Gauge Pro confirmed this: the machine was now running as cool as it does under OS 9. For testing purposes I re-enabled the extensions one more time, and the temp immediately rocketed straight up to 70 C again and stayed there. Disable them, reboot, and the temp stays between 50 and 60 C. I never would have guessed to blame printing extensions, so it's pure luck that drew me to the solution. Now I can use 7.6.1 without feeling like I'm compromising a thing! By the way (and this is really a topic for a new thread), I tried a little "hack" I read about elsewhere that lets me run a few apps that claim to require OS 8. If you run Appearance Manager, and use ResEdit to change the vers resource in System from 7.6.1 to 8.1.0, you can run IE 5.1.7, RealPlayer 8, and SoundJam 2.5.3 (and probably more, but those are the 3 I wanted). It seems to work fine. Now I can listen to BBC streams on my 1400 (and wirelessly, no less!). Slick. --V.
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DaveRhodes
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32 MB Posts: 43 
Reply #9 on: July 17, 2008, 16:56
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I think it depends on the programs you're running. My Sonnet G3 upgrade runs at 66 degrees under 7.6.1 and 54 degrees under 8.6 with the same programs running. Disabling the desktop printing extensions under 7.6.1 lowers the temp to 62 degrees initially, but then it rockets back up to 66 once I start running my normal suite of programs. I'm guessing it's some essential routine in the 7.6.1 kernel that's still 68k code, and spins the processor furiously while it's emulating it. For you, maybe the desktop printing extension was the only thing using it. All I know is my laptop with a 3 GHz Pentium 4 Prescott would start throwing a huge crashy kernel-panciky overheat fit when its temperature climbed over 65 degrees, but this little 0.46 GHz G3 doesn't even seem to care. Meanwhile, Xbox 360s run hot enough to warp their motherboards. PPCs must just run way hotter. Didn't Steve Jobs say Apple was switching from PPC to Intel because of power consumption and heat concerns? But then again, the bottom of this 1400 is only pleasantly warm... though the heat sink beneath the keyboard is pretty hot. Maybe Gauge Pro is reporting temperatures too high?
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Vesuvio
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8 MB Posts: 11
Reply #10 on: July 17, 2008, 18:51
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Quote from: "DaveRhodes" Maybe Gauge Pro is reporting temperatures too high? I think this is likely, as the temp monitor in the XLR8 MACh Speed Control Panel always reports a reading 2 or 3 degrees cooler than what Gauge Pro reports. You are also right that the suite of apps you regularly run can push the temp one way or another. My temp now averages 64˚C under my full load, and maybe climbs to 66˚C after several hours of pushing the 1400 hard (if I'm playing with something like sonicWORX PowerBundle, or ProTools 3.8.4). However, ever since I disabled desktop printing, it always drops into the 40s at idle, and overnight it drops into the 30s (and I do have processor cycling enabled). That NEVER happened with desktop printing on: it stayed pegged at 70˚C no matter what. --V
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